I've been harping about this for years, but wonder why wont any of the big manufacturers build the bike we have been asking for?

I want:
- a reliable aircooled 4-stroke (think XR400)
- a 6-speed tranny (think TE-610)
- e-start
- carburated
- under 265 lbs.
- put it in a nice newer technology chassis with a decent suspension (think WR250/450)
- Factory street lega

They can even put all of the smog and emmissions restricitions on it for all I care. We will just remove it, rejet, open the airbox and away we go.

Wouldnt it be nice to have one bike that you could trully hit an enduro on one weekend, then a 200 mile dualsport trip the next.

Seems like a no-brainer, but we either get a killer dirtbike that is street legal, but cant really handle the road all that well (KTM/Husky), a big pig that is great on the road, but forget any really singletrack (DR650, XR650L), or something in between that really isnt great at either (WR250/KLX250)

Sorry, just a rant after settling on 2 bikes for these duties (highly modded KDX220 for real dirt & XR650L for road)

Which manufacturer need to sell reliable,off road capable,low maintence bike...
It is much more better for them to sell parts frequently...
Crf450 frame with Xr engine(or something similar) is what we whant and they are aware of that-but,valves,engine rebuild(again and again),often oil changing,etc.
It`s economy...:excuseme:
Ivan

Racing buddy bought a leftover '08 KX450F for this season. With less than 10 hrs. on bike, the oil pump shaft sheared and toasted the engine. $2300 to fix and Kawasaki said it is not a warranty issue.

And, yes. You mean to tell me that Honda cant put an XR engine into a CRF type frame?

Honda currently sells a 400 over seas in some markets and has for years. They choose not to here because it is determined no profit is to be made. It's expensive to meet Federal standards testing and laws requiring parts availability for 7 years(i think 7).

"We" is a tiny market for big manufacturers.

Here's my wish list:
**lightweight frame & good suspension (agree with you here.. like the wr's, but better suspension like the huskys)
**6 speed trannie, agree.. like te610 & wr250r
**Fuel Injection, handles elevation changes better, better economy
**Water cooled.. i think it's better technology, but the oil cooled dr650 is pretty cool, too
**~ 400cc's or ~35-40 hp.. enough power to cruise, but still light for dirt
**street legal out of the box
**Reliable engine engineered for longevity.. ala te610(2008+), wr250r(2008+) or drz400... not a 'racebike with a plate'.
**max 300# curb weight.
**around $6k or less out the door..

Right now we have the wr250r for the lower powered end of the spectrum, the drz400 in the middle, & the te610 toward the top.. then you get to the 650+ size with increasing weight.

i really like the new wr250r's.. they could probably be opened up a bit & fit most of the above criteria.. but they might be a little weak if you needed some extra power in sand or a steep uphill climb.. cruising on the hiways might also not be as good. The te610's have more power than i need.. which i don't mind, but it's just a little heavier.. i think ~310#. The drz E model also has plenty of power & is lighter, but not FI & not a wide range trannie.

I've thought about what i would get when my drz is worn out.. the 2 i mention are top candidates, but they cost a lot & neither has the balance i have with my drz right now. The newly announced rmz 450z from suzuki looks like it might fit the bill, but it's not out. If i had to get a bike right now, i'd probably lean toward the te610 as it would be a better adventure bike, but i'd prefer the wr250 for the usual day rides or weekend offroad romps.

I don't want to ride a 500# bike on long adventure rides, or have to pick it up on the trail. But i'd like the reliability & longevity of a street bike, just on a lighter frame with good suspension.

It seems like these are the kinds of things a lot of us in the usa would like, i wonder why so few manufacturers are producing them? Because that's not what really sells, i guess. People either want a hi performance dirt bike, or a big cruiser. We dual sporters are hybrids.. we don't fit into either mold & are having to adapt what is out there, since there are not a lot of choices.

</rant over>

scotty:cool:

I agree with the OP and all other posts. The slightly modded wr250r IS a LITTLE underpowered and a LITTLE heavy but surprisingly fits the bill. And after owning this bike I have been converted from a carburated fan to loving FI. Not sure why you prefer air cooled...(weight, reliability)? While the wr250r might technically be in the same class as the klx250, it is an insult to compare the two.

LILBIT said:

Would you tell me, if it is so expensive, why does KTM and Husqvarna do it? Just ride one of these DS bikes and you know after the s m o g crap is removed they run like a track race bike. So as long as the euro's bring them in, the only competition for a great big bore bike is them two. At least Suzie gets it with the DRZ400, it's just too heavy with old technology, but bomb proof in most cases.

I've had a TTR125cc, DR350, and now a DR650. The DR350 was a great compromise and I really wish they still made it. My only complaint with the DR350 was I wish it had a little more power when on the interstate and the seat height was under 34". I'm very content with the DR650 for my needs which is mostly road, dirt roads, and occasionaly tight trails. However my wish list would go something like this straight from the factory for under $4500.

1. Fuel injection for elevation changes and easy start ups.
2. Seat height 30" yet still have a long travel suspension for slamming over rocks, logs, etc.
3. Weight under 280lbs.
4. 0-60 under 7 seconds and top speed around 90-100mph, and 60+mpg.
5. A little wind protection, big rear rack and 250mile+ fuel tank.
6. I like the simplicity of the air/oil cooled engines.

Why not wish for them to pay you to ride it while your asking them to bend/break the laws of physics & business?

You want a better DR350, the DRZ.

You want a better DRZ, the TE610.

No? You want to be able to cruise at 80 MPH comfy & cozy with power to spare but compete in a pro trials event too? For a budget price point?

Come on. There are more choices now than ever. You want an air cooled 32 HP lump in a CRF chassie. Easy, call BBR.

Cheap, light, reliable, pick any two.

jjm525 said:

That would be great:ride: Then I could quit my job so my Boss:rant: and Customers wouldn't ask me to break the laws of physics for next to nothing.

firffighter said:

If that is a real requirement, even a 200cc dual sport bike is easily capable of a 200 mile trip:lame: :p

I've probally rode that many miles in a day on my ol' non suspended three wheeler:moon: :ride:

& it isn't anything I haven't done on a 520EXC, TE450 or a 950SE, though none of them cost $125 OTD either...

firffighter said:

Honda definitely can put an XR engine into a CRF type frame,but that`s not profitable for Honda...
It`s much more profitable to make bikes like KX450F,and after less than 10 hrs,collect $2300 on parts and service.
That was my point.

Lets face it,......it should be a right of every Man, Woman and Child to have any bike they want built anyway they want. Paid for by somebody else's money. Honda, Suzuki, Kaw, Yam, KTM, Husky, and BMW should be greatful to build 6 billion bikes.

yanni23 said:

A 525EXC is that bike, even came street legal in 07, Beta still uses the RFS in a DOT bike too. Wide ratio 6 speed and anvil tough.

After smashing watercooled bikes over & over and not having a leak in over 20 years of MX & off road I just don't get the air cooled deal. The 2011 emissions would put a fork in it anyway.

KTM 525 has too much power? Get the 450, build the engine from 250cc to 610cc in any stroke combo you want from a number of builders. It will not be a $4500 new bike but used with a few hundred miles are at $5000 these days.

See? Not hard at all.

I agree with Yanni on this one. A KTM 525 is not all that great at the tight technical stuff (overheating at slow speeds & too much power for tight woods). It also would be very uncomfortable after about 25 miles of road.

The KTM's and Husky's cant handle a long distance trip without oil changes and how many miles can you rack up before you are doing the valves and topend?

A XR400 or DRZ400E type engine is what I talking about. Great manageable power for the woods, but can handle 65mph without feeling like she's coming apart and I dont have to change the oil 1/2 way through a day's ride!

Really, a plated XR400 or DRZ400E would be close, but the weight and outdated chassis and suspension hold it back.

I suppose you could put some CRF forks on a plated XR400 and you would be close, but still no e-start and still old style chassis.

BTW, if you think a 200cc dualsport, i.e. DR200 can handle and enduro here in the Northwest, you are crazy. And, a 200cc dualsport may be able to "handle" 200 miles of road, but how comfortable are you going to feel doing it?

firffighter said:

It is the best do it all bike, had an xr 600 and the no e start sucks, it was heavy and didn't have the same snap as the 525. Comfort was actually similar between the two. I ride super tight technical stuff with it all day long, or I can ride 150 miles of fast mountain road all day long. To each there own. but aside from the air cooled, the 525/450 of the ktm, husky and beta covers every aspect of the original post, at least for me.

firffighter said:

200cc=200miles. Comfort is for Goldwings, everything else requires something called toughness after X-miles:p

Don't bust my sack over it, but ever since they went from horses to petrol burning engines 200 miles got a lot easier:smirk:

Now quit picking on me and:ride:

My 520EXC went thru 2 years of racing a few as a trailer and its last 2 with me as a DS sumoto. Needed a WP seal after 6 years of service. My brothers 450MXC was a street ridden sumoto, parted it after 48,000 miles, no repairs EVER. Every engine part, head, cam, cyl, lower end was sold on ktmtalk with the miles noted and were put back in service without any issues.

That bike was ridden from Daytona bike week home to NJ via the tail of the dragon where he changed the oil, even though it was as new. 2-3k street mile oil changes were fine. Why you want to change your oil every ten years is beyond me but if you want a tough bike, the RFS was/is in everyway.

firffighter said:

To be honest, I took a friend on a 200 mile trip from my house to my cabin, and by halfway we were both fighting over a '94 TW-200, as my DRZ-400 seat sucks compared to that nice wide seat on the TW. :lol:

The TW is geared too tall, so you can hold it WFO all day long without worry, which we did.