What's the difference between these oil filters? pics...


8 replies to this topic
  • Aka.Goose

Posted May 26, 2009 - 10:28 AM

#1

The one that is all silver and doesn't have a rubber grommet on the back is from Outlaw Racing, and the other one is the Zip-Ty one that came with the magnetic cover...They are obviously designed quite differently...Which is better, and why?
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  • grayracer513

Posted May 26, 2009 - 11:09 AM

#2

The Outlaw is a cheap knock-off of a Scotts stainless mesh filter. The Scotts is my personal choice, but I can't speak to the quality of any of the copy-cats, and I know that some of them have had problems. This design does not use the base pad you find on the OEM disposable types because it does not need it. Only the seal at the cover is required for the oil system to function. There is nothing at the inboard end of the filter that needs to be sealed, and the base pads on the disposables are there so that the filter will seal against the cover reliably without being crushed.

The second filter with the red seals is an OEM type of the brass mesh variety used in '98-'02 YZF's. It is an inferior filter in every way compared to either a "paper" element, or a high quality stainless mesh filter.

Read more on SS filters:

http://www.thumperta...297#post4676297

  • Aka.Goose

Posted May 26, 2009 - 12:17 PM

#3

Jeez, why would Zip-Ty charge you all that friggin' money for a magnetic filter cover, then toss in a filter that's even worse than a $10 stock paper filter???
I'd rather them not give one at all...I almost used that one instead, with the thinking that it was better since it came from Zip-Ty...Thank god for TT...

  • Ga426owner

Posted May 27, 2009 - 06:16 AM

#4

I would not diss them for this that much. The OEM brass filter (even this one looks aftermkt to me)is not that bad, I used them for years w/o any issues. Grey is right that the SS will filter more fine particles. The outlaw looks very similar to the Scotts. I use Scotts and the ReadyRacing SS filter w/o any issues and occasionally a paper filter as I have several left on the shelf.

My point is this - they can all be used. And ZipTy must have bought a ton of them to give away with the mag bolt. I would not hesitate to use it (the brass)except maybe not on a brand new bike where the particles and metal pieces need to be caught during the critical break in period....then again, I would only use a paper filter for this as I would not want my 60 dollar Scotts filled up with a bunch of breakin trash making it more difficult to clean.

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  • grayracer513

Posted May 27, 2009 - 07:00 AM

#5

The problem with the OEM bronze mesh is simply that it doesn't filter fine enough. Their limit is only about 75~80 microns. Expressed in microns, that doesn't really have the impact that it should, because 80 microns is over .003", and that, frankly, is way too big a chunk of whatever to allow to run through the oiling system under any circumstance when you can help it.

The Scotts cuts this to 35 microns, or right at .001", which is still pretty large, but the thing that makes it work is that it stops absolutely everything larger than 34 microns on the first pass and holds it until it's cleaned. Paper filters will trap some particles half that size and smaller. They may also catch some stuff they missed on the first pass as it comes through again later. But they don't stop all of the 80, or even 100 micron debris on the first pass, and they don't always hold everything they catch.

The trouble with filters is that none of them are perfect, and the tandem filter arrangement the KTM had for so long was one of my favorite things about them. Owning one, I would have had a Scotts first, followed by a paper element.

But either way, the old brass mesh filters are nearly useless, and I would never run one.

  • Ga426owner

Posted May 27, 2009 - 08:56 AM

#6

The problem with the OEM bronze mesh is simply that it doesn't filter fine enough. Their limit is only about 75~80 microns. Expressed in microns, that doesn't really have the impact that it should, because 80 microns is over .003", and that, frankly, is way too big a chunk of whatever to allow to run through the oiling system under any circumstance when you can help it.
But either way, the old brass mesh filters are nearly useless, and I would never run one.


I hear ya Grey....Micron sizes vary with Scotts being the best at catching the smallest and Brass catching the largest but we all used these Brass Filters for years on our 400s & 426s w/o any issues right? I am just stating this and nothing else......We did not really have a choice until the Scotts Came out....now there are a lot of choices.

  • Aka.Goose

Posted May 27, 2009 - 09:03 AM

#7

I'm curious as to how the $20 Outlaw filter compares to the $60 Scotts filter...

  • Aka.Goose

Posted May 27, 2009 - 09:07 AM

#8

And why do they even bother with that spring/bearing??? It seems like it would take a rediculous amount of force for that to open...

  • grayracer513

Posted May 27, 2009 - 09:49 AM

#9

I hear ya Grey....Micron sizes vary with Scotts being the best at catching the smallest and Brass catching the largest but we all used these Brass Filters for years on our 400s & 426s w/o any issues right? I am just stating this and nothing else......We did not really have a choice until the Scotts Came out....now there are a lot of choices.

I know. And back in the day, the big British bikes had no filter at all other than a coarse screen in the feed line. Other four strokes had less than that. But why would you choose to do that now?

I'm curious as to how the $20 Outlaw filter compares to the $60 Scotts filter...

What would your guess be?

And why do they even bother with that spring/bearing??? It seems like it would take a rediculous amount of force for that to open...

The ball you refer to is the bypass valve. The OEM filters have them, too, in the form of a flat, spring loaded plate. Their purpose is to avoid the oil system being obstructed by a clogged or restrictive filter. It should take about a 7~10 psi pressure drop from one side of the filter to the other to open it. With paper elements, the bypass quite commonly opens when the rider takes off after starting the engine cold. With a Scotts, they virtually never open.





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