i duno reading and having a few posters comment on broken trannys is evidence enough for me. I'll never use it because of this thread, so dont worry yellowsnow ur msg is getting out no matter what all the atf lovers say!
Can ATF cause transmission problems?
Started by yellowsnow, May 17 2009 04:21 PM
119 replies to this topic
Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:50 AM
stlavsa said:
i duno reading and having a few posters comment on broken trannys is evidence enough for me.
One of my riding buddies broke a gear in her brand new 2003 200exc, and she was using the recommended oil (i think it was shell motor oil at the time). I guess yer really screwed now, lol.
I can assure you that motor oil protects just as well though, so you can use it with a clear conscience.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:52 AM
llamaface said:
Blindly following the mfr specs and attacking other possibilities without scientific basis does lack common sense however.
Mostly because their is substantial evidence that those that engineered the machines they build are not in a position of expertise concerning the lubricants to be run in their machines. Got it.
Oh, show me where I attacked using ATF? I don't remember that.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:54 AM
stlavsa said:
i duno reading and having a few posters comment on broken trannys is evidence enough for me. I'll never use it because of this thread, so dont worry yellowsnow ur msg is getting out no matter what all the atf lovers say!
Plus atf is a corrosive liquid, why bother with it if you dont have to.
Plus atf is a corrosive liquid, why bother with it if you dont have to.
Again, this is the first broken gear you've heard of or have you only heard of broken gears when ATF is used?
Corrosive, that's a new one. Can you support that?
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:23 AM
Bryan Bosch said:
Mostly because their is substantial evidence that those that engineered the machines they build are not in a position of expertise concerning the lubricants to be run in their machines. Got it.
Pretty close
I wouldn't say they're not in a position of expertise, but it's clear to any experienced rider that the manual is not the be-all and end-all. At least it should be clear. Any manual that recommends 60-1 premix ratio (not that this is a lubricant to be run in the machine) clearly has other priorities besides top function and durability, so it must be taken with a grain or two of salt.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:30 AM
llamaface said:
Pretty close
I wouldn't say they're not in a position of expertise, but it's clear to any experienced rider that the manual is not the be-all and end-all. At least it should be clear. Any manual that recommends 60-1 premix ratio (not that this is a lubricant to be run in the machine) clearly has other priorities besides top function and durability, so it must be taken with a grain or two of salt.
I wouldn't say they're not in a position of expertise, but it's clear to any experienced rider that the manual is not the be-all and end-all. At least it should be clear. Any manual that recommends 60-1 premix ratio (not that this is a lubricant to be run in the machine) clearly has other priorities besides top function and durability, so it must be taken with a grain or two of salt.
Agreed.
Things like premix, jetting, etc... are more variable based upon conditions, mods, etc...
I do not have stock jetting, suspenions settings, etc... But, I do run engine and tranny oils w/i mfg specs. Always have and it's always served me well (30+ years).
My point of contention was saying that following the mfg recommendations on tranny oil lacked common sense. Nothing is 100% but following these specific recommendations will yeild overwealmingly good results for the vast majority of riders.
Nothing against ATF. Just my opinion based upon my experience.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:32 AM
Actually you're right its not corrosive that is incorrect. My mistake there. Im a bonehead thinking about the problems associated with brake fluid!
I havent heard of 1 person with two bikes that has broken 2 trannys in 1 year whilst using oil. I have heard of 1 person with two bikes with broken trannys using atf tho!
again not saying its never happened, just what ive heard of!!
I havent heard of 1 person with two bikes that has broken 2 trannys in 1 year whilst using oil. I have heard of 1 person with two bikes with broken trannys using atf tho!
again not saying its never happened, just what ive heard of!!
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:36 AM
Bryan Bosch said:
My point of contention was saying that following the mfg recommendations on tranny oil lacked common sense.
This may be too subtle a point to get across to argumentative forum types, but I did NOT say that following the mfrs recommendations on tranny oil lacked common sense. What I said was this:
"I'm just advocating for common sense and using one's brain instead of blindly following without thinking."
I thought I took great pains throughout this thread to point out that motor oil will also work fine, and I wasn't arguing not to use it, but simply making the point that ATF has proven over many bajillions of miles, to work great, and the people that say it won't work, or will cause problems, are simply wrong.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:37 AM
stlavsa said:
I have heard of 1 person with two bikes that are decades old with broken trannys using atf tho!
I fixed the part that you omitted, lol.
If you run out of better stuff to do, you might explain to us just how atf can contribute to a 'broken' tranny.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:45 AM
stlavsa said:
Actually you're right its not corrosive that is incorrect. My mistake there. Im a bonehead thinking about the problems associated with brake fluid!
I havent heard of 1 person with two bikes that has broken 2 trannys in 1 year whilst using oil. I have heard of 1 person with two bikes with broken trannys using atf tho!
again not saying its never happened, just what ive heard of!!
I havent heard of 1 person with two bikes that has broken 2 trannys in 1 year whilst using oil. I have heard of 1 person with two bikes with broken trannys using atf tho!
again not saying its never happened, just what ive heard of!!
There are thousands using ATF who have never broken a transmission. The OP broke two.
The conclusion that the failures have something to do with his skill/style would be as logical as yours.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:46 AM
Bryan Bosch said:
So, following the recommendations of the mfg and their engineering staff lacks common sense? Got it.
llamaface said:
lol, that's not what i said. Perhaps you are just in a pot-stirring mood today and feeling argumentative.
Are you two frickin' married?
Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:51 AM
Jeekinz said:
Are you two frickin' married?
We would be if not for those darned churchy types (and black democrats) for voting down gay marriage in cali.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:06 PM
klxd said:
There are thousands using ATF who have never broken a transmission. The OP broke two.
The conclusion that the failures have something to do with his skill/style would be as logical as yours.
The conclusion that the failures have something to do with his skill/style would be as logical as yours.
True, if he breaks them again with oil...
I fully realize whats going on here, and I am fairly sure his damange didnt truly occur because of the atf fluid. I do wonder however why they dont recommend using atf fluid? and do recommend using oil. Not trying to be a smart ass.. but theres gotta be some reason behind it right? I dont think they just forgot about atf fluid?
Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:12 PM
stlavsa said:
I do wonder however why they dont recommend using atf fluid? and do recommend using oil. Not trying to be a smart ass.. but theres gotta be some reason behind it right? I dont think they just forgot about atf fluid?
many mfrs do recommend atf in 2-stroke transmissions.
I also would be curious to hear the official reasoning behind the manual recommendation, but then I'd be even curiouser to hear the reasoning behind the 60-1 mix ratio, suspensions settings that don't work, jetting that will barely run, etc.... Heck, I'd like to know why the manual has shown the 250/300 oil drain plug on the wrong side of the bike for the last 5 years. I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I still drain my oil on right side instead of the left like the manual shows.
At any rate, if you like motor oil or specialty gear oil better, that stuff works great too. No reason for you to consider anything else.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:14 PM
Beats me. But several manufacturers over the years have recommended ATF.
For some companies the answer is simple, they don't sell ATF with their name on it.
For some companies the answer is simple, they don't sell ATF with their name on it.
Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:17 PM
llamaface said:
Heck, I'd like to know why the manual has shown the 250/300 oil drain plug on the wrong side of the bike for the last 5 years. I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I still drain my oil on right side instead of the left like the manual shows.
You have a KTM right? Isn't the chain on the wrong side too?
Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:20 PM
i use antifreeze in my transmission. i figure it lubricates my water pump excellently and keeps my engine in my truck running cool it would do the same in my transmission:thumbsup:
Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:21 PM
llamaface said:
many mfrs do recommend atf in 2-stroke transmissions.
I also would be curious to hear the official reasoning behind the manual recommendation, but then I'd be even curiouser to hear the reasoning behind the 60-1 mix ratio, suspensions settings that don't work, jetting that will barely run, etc.... Heck, I'd like to know why the manual has shown the 250/300 oil drain plug on the wrong side of the bike for the last 5 years. I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I still drain my oil on right side instead of the left like the manual shows.
At any rate, if you like motor oil or specialty gear oil better, that stuff works great too. No reason for you to consider anything else.
I also would be curious to hear the official reasoning behind the manual recommendation, but then I'd be even curiouser to hear the reasoning behind the 60-1 mix ratio, suspensions settings that don't work, jetting that will barely run, etc.... Heck, I'd like to know why the manual has shown the 250/300 oil drain plug on the wrong side of the bike for the last 5 years. I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I still drain my oil on right side instead of the left like the manual shows.
At any rate, if you like motor oil or specialty gear oil better, that stuff works great too. No reason for you to consider anything else.
Im with you on the 60-1 mix ratio. Never heard of it! but as for jetting.. I guess I have just never owned a bike yet where the stock jetting was a problem (tho I do read about it all the time) well except my pitbikes it needed some work but its chinese... I will attribute my sucess with stock jetting to luck. I havent dyno'd and wideband tuned my bikes either so i guess theres a chance they could need tweaked but no bogs and always linear power...
i have had a manual that showed the timing marks on the cam gears pointed the wrong direction for TDC.. and that threw me for a loop for a little while..
Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:51 PM
stlavsa said:
I havent heard of 1 person with two bikes that has broken 2 trannys in 1 year whilst using oil. I have heard of 1 person with two bikes with broken trannys using atf tho!
again not saying its never happened, just what ive heard of!!
again not saying its never happened, just what ive heard of!!
I'm seeing a pattern, and it's not the lubricant.........
