KTM and sand tracks


16 replies to this topic
  • blitz007

Posted May 15, 2009 - 08:15 PM

#1

Hi guys, I have a 2009 KTM 250XC and something that I have always wondered about is why KTM puts in the owners manual "not for use on sand tracks" or something to that effect. I have been riding the past few weeks at a sand track. Is this something you typically see written in most manuals?? And should I be taking it seriously??

  • kyli3

Posted May 18, 2009 - 07:37 PM

#2

Really?

Not for sand tracks and they are from Austria?

Racing all the sandy tracks on the GPs?....

Confusing.

I don't have an answer man.

  • dirtbeater

Posted May 18, 2009 - 08:01 PM

#3

they work in the dunes, never tried a sand track. It would probably work, not sure. I think there is some things that get lost in translation in the KTM manual. Give it a shot, just clean the sand off when your done.

  • Aido_DRZ

Posted May 18, 2009 - 10:16 PM

#4

Hi guys, I have a 2009 KTM 250XC and something that I have always wondered about is why KTM puts in the owners manual "not for use on sand tracks" or something to that effect. I have been riding the past few weeks at a sand track. Is this something you typically see written in most manuals?? And should I be taking it seriously??


I've never noticed that written in the owners manual, But! i wouldnt be concerned because most of the bikes in this forum..including my own would be blown up by now if they were allergic to sand. :doh:

  • Firecracker

Posted May 19, 2009 - 05:19 AM

#5

That is really weird. Maybe they just don't want to worry about you trying to make a claim during the brief warranty period from sand in the bearings or something.

  • wall of tvs

Posted May 19, 2009 - 08:34 AM

#6

Where does it say this in the manual? My '08 200xc manual says nothing to the tune of "don't ride on sand tracks." In fact, they have a few different sections on how to tune the suspension and engine for sand.

  • blitz007

Posted May 19, 2009 - 04:08 PM

#7

2009 Owners Manual, page 69, jet settings, "Not for highway use and sand tracks". I never thought much of it. But I was curious what you all thought.

  • Aido_DRZ

Posted May 19, 2009 - 05:35 PM

#8

2009 Owners Manual, page 69, jet settings, "Not for highway use and sand tracks". I never thought much of it. But I was curious what you all thought.


Ahh now this makes sense..if this is in regard to jetting and the manual was describing a particular jetting setup, then it was probably describing a Leaner jetting setup which shouldnt be used for Highway riding or Sand tracks. Typically for sustained throttle or High RPM riding like Highway or sand you will jet the bike a bit richer, incorrect jetting with those applications could seize the engine.

  • XR4DEZ

Posted May 19, 2009 - 06:22 PM

#9

Living in the desert all mine sees is sand of every kind.

  • schwint11

Posted May 19, 2009 - 06:36 PM

#10

Ahh now this makes sense..if this is in regard to jetting and the manual was describing a particular jetting setup, then it was probably describing a Leaner jetting setup which shouldnt be used for Highway riding or Sand tracks. Typically for sustained throttle or High RPM riding like Highway or sand you will jet the bike a bit richer, incorrect jetting with those applications could seize the engine.


that was the only thing i could think of:usa:

  • llamaface

Posted May 20, 2009 - 11:01 AM

#11

2009 Owners Manual, page 69, jet settings, "Not for highway use and sand tracks". I never thought much of it. But I was curious what you all thought.


You should have bought an 07 or 08. They only say 'not for highway use'. :doh:

  • BASSic

Posted May 20, 2009 - 12:43 PM

#12

I have no firsthand experience nor do I claim to be an expert, however I have heard that two stroke engines such as those in our beloved KTMs do not like to be ridden at a constant high RPM for extended periods of time. Highway use or sand tracks/dunes use could potentially present the conditions for an engine to be run in that manner.

I read that it has something to do with certain spots inside the engine getting heated unevenly and possibly warping; the two stroke likes varying RPMs.

Can any experts chime in here and confirm this?

  • llamaface

Posted May 20, 2009 - 01:32 PM

#13

Can any experts chime in here and confirm this?


I'm not an expert, but I thought we already decided that since the disclaimer is on the jetting page, that it only applies to the suggested jetting specs, which would make sense since you generally need to jet a bit richer on the main for riding in sand.

  • visbits

Posted May 20, 2009 - 01:45 PM

#14

Friend of mine has a 144 that he rides balls out on some sand tracks, hes on his 3rd top end, 2nd cylinder and head to. Pistons keep failing and destroying it.

IDK if its because of his riding or just the motor isn't taking the beating it should.

  • Aido_DRZ

Posted May 20, 2009 - 09:07 PM

#15

I have no firsthand experience nor do I claim to be an expert, however I have heard that two stroke engines such as those in our beloved KTMs do not like to be ridden at a constant high RPM for extended periods of time. Highway use or sand tracks/dunes use could potentially present the conditions for an engine to be run in that manner.

I read that it has something to do with certain spots inside the engine getting heated unevenly and possibly warping; the two stroke likes varying RPMs.

Can any experts chime in here and confirm this?


If you read my second post in this thread it contains the answer to the OPs question. It is in fact jetting related :doh:

I have heard that two stroke engines such as those in our beloved KTMs do not like to be ridden at a constant high RPM for extended periods of time.


As above proper jetting is essential for these types of running conditions. Its not a matter of the engine not liking it..its a matter of knowing how to properly jet the engine for your chosen riding conditions, which in this scenario would require more Fuel and Oil to properly cool and lubricate the engines internals.

  • Dread

Posted May 20, 2009 - 11:54 PM

#16

Aido DRZ is correct - The manual has two different jetting tables where one table is for "harder" tracks (not for highway or sandtracks), and at the bottom of the page there is a table showing jetting specs for sand tracks.

My local track is a pure deep sand track with big hills and the jetting spec KTM gives for sand tracks confuses me.
The bike comes jetted with 158 MJ, 42 Pilot, N1EI needle 3rd clip. For sand tracks KTM recommends 175 MJ, 45 Pilot, NOZG needle 4th clip. This is a huge leap and there is no way for me to get the bike running clean with this jetting. I´ve been running 160 MJ, 42 Pilot, N1EH needle 3rd clip without any problems.

Last year I raced a 150SX and experienced the same thing. The KTM sand track jetting spec was way too rich.

  • BASSic

Posted May 21, 2009 - 05:54 AM

#17

Apologies for not reading ALL of the posts before chiming in.. I missed the posts about jetting being the main reason. This all makes sense now - with proper lubrication you're OK.

The bike comes jetted with 158 MJ, 42 Pilot, N1EI needle 3rd clip. For sand tracks KTM recommends 175 MJ, 45 Pilot, NOZG needle 4th clip. This is a huge leap and there is no way for me to get the bike running clean with this jetting. I´ve been running 160 MJ, 42 Pilot, N1EH needle 3rd clip without any problems.

Last year I raced a 150SX and experienced the same thing. The KTM sand track jetting spec was way too rich.


That sounds more like KTM covering themselves; recommend overly rich settings so someone doesn't grenade their engine in the sand, even if that means sacrificing power or not running optimally.




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.