07 YZF 450 electrical issues


27 replies to this topic
  • MotorcycleDan

Posted May 07, 2009 - 04:42 PM

#1

Ok, heres the deal, I have a 2007 yzf 450 in my shop that I installed a Moose lighting stator, headlight, tail light with a 12v regulator. The bike ran fine for about 15 miles then quit running. I heard the coils went bad and replaced it. It seemed to fix the problem, but after another 15 miles it quit running again. It will start if you kick it about 500 times, but will only idle any load causes it to die. I tried swaping the stators back and that did not help. I have never seen this before, and would like to hear back from anyone who has.
Thanks, Daniel

  • swatdoc

Posted May 07, 2009 - 06:09 PM

#2

Daniel - all i can say is join the club! My first Electrosport/Moose stator actually worked fine for about 200 miles. It went bad and somehow took my $350 Graves CDI with it. Put stock cdi back in, along with a brand new Moose stator - started right up, idled and ran fine for about 1 minute, then died again. Pretty frustating to say the least. I'm in the process of going back to all stock ignition/electrical components, and just running my lights strictly by battery power.

  • MotorcycleDan

Posted May 07, 2009 - 06:22 PM

#3

Well at least im not the only one dealing with this. Its a bummer though. Im a tech at the shop, and tired of this thing coming back, I just need to make sure its right before I send it down the road again.

  • swatdoc

Posted May 07, 2009 - 06:37 PM

#4

there's a company that does rewinds to the stock stator called Lake and Trail - i know of one guy in hawaii that had his done by them and as far as i know has had no problems. you might talk about this with your customer. I have totally given up on Electrosport/Moose stators.

  • LumpyBoy

Posted May 07, 2009 - 06:41 PM

#5

But in both cases it seems that you guys were running an AC lighting system of the stator and probably running the lighting coil to the frame. Probably the ignition circuit doesn't like having the frame used for both the ground in the ignition circuit and the ground in the lighting circuit. Surely someone at Yami must know the answer.

I am running a DC system off the stator, which worked great on the maiden voyage last w/e. If my Moose stator fries, then I will probably just go back to the stock stator and run a battery-only lighting system.

  • swatdoc

Posted May 07, 2009 - 08:54 PM

#6

you may be entirely correct - I'm just frustrated and don't feel like messing with it anymore. reliability issues concern me - I do NOT want a stator to fry on my when i'm 30 miles from home!

  • MotorcycleDan

Posted May 08, 2009 - 04:54 AM

#7

Yamaha and Moose tech support are both looking into it, the Moose stator comes with a one year warranty, if it is the source of the problem then Moose can replace his electrical componets, Ive installed over a dozen dual sport kits with aftermarket stators, never had them crap out.
Thanks for the replys, when I get a deffinant solution I will let ya know. Daniel.

  • LumpyBoy

Posted May 08, 2009 - 06:35 AM

#8

Well, if I am Yami then maybe I don't have any incentive to investigate since as an MX bike it was not made to have a lighting coil stator. I assume no major problems with stock stators. In any event, I'll be a guinea pig for running a Moose stator with a full DC system. I may even carry my stock stator with me on some rides in case the Moose fries, though if the CDI gets toasted that's another matter.

  • LumpyBoy

Posted May 08, 2009 - 07:26 AM

#9

Swatdoc, I also note that MikeDD here had a L&T rewind for lights on an '07 and he's had electrical problems. Maybe he was running an AC lighting system too, but obviously he can chime in.

  • swatdoc

Posted May 08, 2009 - 02:44 PM

#10

Oh really??? I had talked with Mike about 1 1/2 years ago, but haven't heard from him since - he's the guy I was referring to with the L&T rewind that I THOUGHT had no problems! I actually PM'ed him several months ago to ask if he had any problems, but never heard back. Do you recall what problems he said that he had?

I really think you're right Jim - besides the inherent poor quality of Electrosport stators, which I have heard from Multiple soorces, I can't help but think now that running 50 watts of AC power thru the common frame "ground" in an AC system is causing some problem. It will be VERY interesting to see how your system goes since you're the only one I know that's done the DC conversion and kept the 2 eletrical systems totally seperate.
Good idea though to carry the stock stator with you!

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  • grayracer513

Posted May 08, 2009 - 02:59 PM

#11

...I can't help but think now that running 50 watts of AC power thru the common frame "ground" in an AC system is causing some problem. It will be VERY interesting to see how your system goes since you're the only one I know that's done the DC conversion and kept the 2 eletrical systems totally seperate.
Good idea though to carry the stock stator with you!

As I pointed out earlier, basically all road bikes, and certainly all cars, have a mixed system; AC & DC on the same vehicle. They use an AC generator to power a DC system. But the AC side in such vehicles is always "floated" and never shares a ground to the frame with the DC side. I would think that just grounding a light bulb in a DC lighting system on a YZF, where there are AC circuits already grounded would immediately create a conflict.

  • swatdoc

Posted May 08, 2009 - 11:29 PM

#12

That could be it also, funny how the instructions from Moose/Electrosport show to do just exactly that.

As an update, just a few minutes ago, i got around to installing a stock stator i had ordered. My bike started right up and seemed to be running fine. It's 9:30 pm here, so i'll take it for a ride tomorrow to double check. gotta tighten all the bolts i just have finger tight right now also. And, just for giggles, I'm gonna try plugging my Graves CDI back in and seeing if it's OK or if it's really fried.

  • skidooboy

Posted May 09, 2009 - 05:27 AM

#13

we need a fix for this badly. i want to street ride my yz something awful. i'm waiting to hear how you guys fix this before i do anything. ski

  • swatdoc

Posted May 09, 2009 - 01:18 PM

#14

For now, I got my bike running again by installing a stock stator, so i'm gonna run my whole setup from a NiMH battery pack. I'm just gonna make my own pack out of 5000 mah sub-c cells - hi tech ones from the RC car racing world. It will be a 10 cell pack (each cell is 1.2 volts) and should weigh between 1 and 1 1/2 pounds. Dimensions roughly 4"x2"x2", or 4"x4"x1" depending on how I end up configuring the pack to fit into the airbox area. I already have a very nice high-tech RC car battery charger to charge the pack with.

I went with NiMH instead of polymer Lithium-Ion (Li-Po) for several reasons, even though the Li=Po's are much lighter cells. First, Li-Po's are very finicky cells - if you charge them at too high of a rate, they EASILY catch fire and explode. They need to be balanced regularly or the cells will end up at all different voltages. They need to be stored unplugged, and kept in a fire proof bag when in storage or charging. They absolutely cannot drop below a certain voltage or the pack will be destroyed - so you need to have an electronic device hooked up to them to monitor voltage and shut them off when they hit the voltage limit. And lastly, they are not approved for any use other that RC cars. So, in a nutshell - they're a PITA and can be quite un-safe if notused correctly, and they are easily destroyed if not monitored properly. They're great for RC racing in a very controlled environment, but I don't thing saving 6-8 oz. of weight is worth it.

I'm gonna run a Trail Tech HID light for a headlight - it only draws 13 watts, so this pack should power my lights (Baja Designs tail light only pulls about 1/2 watt) for roughly 5 hours. And that's night riding which I hardly ever do. In Hawaii, you don't ave to run your headlight on except nite time, so I'll just switch it off during the day. The battery pack should power that tail light for DAYS, even if left on continuously.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 09, 2009 - 02:29 PM

#15

The Li-Ions at the site I linked to are all equipped with a controller board to handle the charge rate, discharge rate, balancing, and cut-off voltage. How well they work or their quality is an open question at this point.

The thing that draws me to them is less a matter of their weight than the very high power levels they are capable of. If I use them at all, the set up will be required to run a 35w HID for a couple of hours, minimum, and I don't think I have seen a reasonably sized NiMH battery that can do that. That would require roughly 3 amps continuous current over that time. Ultimately, you could assemble an NiMH that would handle that job, but I wonder how big it would end up being, and how many cells you'd need to pack together in parallel.

  • swatdoc

Posted May 09, 2009 - 02:59 PM

#16

Yes, I read about those packs - if I was going Li-Po, I would definitely get one from that company, due to the circuit board that controls the charging, discharging, and cutoff. Pricey though, at about $170 weren't they? Honestly, I think if you were very careful and meticulous, and watched them very closely, they would work great. They're just gonna be much more "high maintenence" than a NiMH pack. The NiMH pack I'm making will run me about $65 or so including wire and shrink wrap.
Gray - Trail Tech lists their 6600 mah Li-Po ack as being ale to power a 30 watt light for 2 1/2 hours. They list their 3700 mah NiMH pack as being able to power that same 30 watt light for 1 1/2 hours. So, splitting the difference, I think a 5000 mah should be good for about 2 hours on a 30 watt light. Obviously, the time would be a little shorter with a 35 watt light, but prob not too bad.
NiMH can handle a 3 amp draw no problem. When we condition our racing packs for rc racing, we typically discharge the packs at 20 or 30 AMP rates, and the packs hold up fine.

  • LumpyBoy

Posted May 09, 2009 - 07:17 PM

#17

I don't think Turn Tech has had any issues with their Li-Ion batteries and the KTM guys have been testing them for some time now. They charge using any normal trickle charger, like Optimate or Battery Tender.

Swatdoc, see http://www.thumperta...ke trail stator. He was having a stalling issue that occurred after the L&T rewind. Never posted whether there was some possible connection.

As I pointed out earlier, basically all road bikes, and certainly all cars, have a mixed system; AC & DC on the same vehicle. They use an AC generator to power a DC system. But the AC side is always "floated" and never shares a ground to the frame with the DC side.


Right. Swatdoc's possible issue is that he's using frame as ground for both AC systems (ignition and lights). My DC lighting circuit is floated.

  • swatdoc

Posted May 09, 2009 - 08:56 PM

#18

Hmmm - I'm betting Mike's issues were stator related.

Well, good news for me today - bike starts and runs like a champ since i removed the SECOND Moose/Electrosport stator and replaced it with a new stock unit. REALLY good news is that I plugged my Graves CDI back in and it's working too! Happy days!

Jim, the Turn -Tech batteries are Lithium IRON Phosphate, not Polymer Lithium ION (Li-Po) - BIG difference! Lithium Iron are very user friendly and can be charged with just about any standard charger like you say.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 10, 2009 - 06:55 AM

#19

Pricey though, at about $170 weren't they? ... The NiMH pack I'm making will run me about $65 or so including wire and shrink wrap.

What source are you using for your cells?

  • swatdoc

Posted May 10, 2009 - 03:25 PM

#20

A place called Max Amps - real big in the rc car industry

http://www.maxamps.c...-5000-Loose.htm

Gotta edit my price estimate from before though - I'm also ordering some 6 cell packs for my RC car, and THOSE are gonna be about $65. The 10 cells for this project will be about $100 plus shrink wrap/wire.





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