loud tinking and water leaking

[TommyTheKid]

So, I have supermoto'd my 2007 WR450, and I absolutely LOVE it. I got it race prep'd a couple weeks ago. Safety wire, fresh oil change, drained and flushed the coolant and replaced with water/water-wetter.

I raced, and WON the beginner class SuperMoto 5280 series in Grand Junction, CO this past weekend. On pre-grid, I thought I heard some tinking noises, but knowing the WR has a noisy motor, and that they had checked all the valve clearances and what not less than 2 weeks ago, I figured it was just my imagination.

I went to go practice today, and the tinking was *very* noticeable in the garage. I shut it down, and took it down to the place I bought it to have someone with a clue listen to it. They said it didn't sound normal. Also it started leaking (slight drippage) water out on the right side of the engine. I am wondering if the dang thing froze while coming over the passes between Grand Junction and Denver. I honestly don't think it was that cold, but it was whizzing through the air at 65MPH+ in the back of my truck

Next race is this weekend, and then the weekend after that. Being in the beginner class would mean that there are no points anyhow, but I still want to ride. Anyone have any ideas what it might be so I can at least try to act like I know whats going on when they call and tell me how bad it is, and I come pick it up cause I can't afford to fix it

Please remember, I am a geek, not a mechanic

~tommy

[zorroz]

The water dripping is normal every late WR will need a new water pump seal not a hard job theres lots of thread on it. As for the sound funny thing happen to me last week. Rode the bike really hard one day and the next day I washed the bike and it made an aweful tink sound too. But the next day it was gone. Wierd. It still goes great and no noise.

[davidl9999]

It's important to have some lubricant, pH buffers, and metal salts in your coolant, not just water and surfactant.

I'd expect further failures if you just use water and WaterWetter, including galvanic corrosion in the cooling system.

[TommyTheKid]

THanks for your responses...

Aussie: I wish my noise was gone the next day. I only ran it about 7 miles since I heard the noise, I am hoping whatever is "wrong" is simple and that I haven't done more damage riding it.

I have read about the "weap" hole, and think that may be where the water was coming out, but yea, that probably points to a bad (seal?) on the water pump. I have been running waterwetter for almost 2 weeks now (tomorrow). I was told that it needs to be swapped out periodically because of this, but 2 weeks should be fine, right?

davidl9999:

The race rules were pretty clear that only water wetter or equivalent was allowed. I believe they are mostly worried about spills on the asphalt being extremely difficult to clean up. I made several suggestions of alternate additives and was shut down every time. I was mostly concerned about having no freeze protection. I figured water wetter contained the necessary lubes for the water pump, and corrosion protection. guess not, eh?

A lot of guys are running this setup, presumably without issues. Is the WR specifically vulnerable to watter wetter only or did I do something wrong?

Tommy

EDIT:

After focusing my search on wr450 water pump, I see all the threads you are talking about, no problem on that then, the bike is almost exactly a year old (maybe a little over) with something like 6-7k miles on it probably.

Is it possible that the water pump is making the noise? (that would be nice if fixing one problem fixes them both)

[davidl9999]

Well, this is what's in WaterWetter (from their MSDS):

DiIsopropyl Alcohol Ether 1-40% CAS #25265-71-8 <-- solvent

Tri Isopropyl Alcohol DiEther 1-40% CAS #24800-44-0 <-- solvent

Sodium Molybdate 2-10% CAS #10102-40-6 <-- corrosion inhibitor

Tolyltriazole 1-3% CAS #29385-43-1 <-- corrosion inhibitor

PolySiloxane Polymer <-- what makes WW work

There is silicone lubricant in there: the PolySiloxane Polymer (a silicone "oil"). It also could act work in the water pump by binding to the plastic and metal surfaces. You will get some corrosion protection if you use enough of the stuff so that it's not too dilute. Not sure I like the Siloxane in there, now I know where the "goo" comes from after using the stuff for a while.

I'm guessing that there just wasn't enough WW in there. The WR is notorious for water pump shaft and seal issues, so it may have just been its time to go.

Might be worth ringing up RedLine Oil and see what they say about it.

http://www.redlineoil.com/customer_service.asp

Edit: Fwiw, once you put WW in, it's pretty hard to get it all out by flushing the coolant system with water.

Edit #2: Did I say 'grats on winning? Well, I'm saying it now.

[TommyTheKid]

Oh, cool. My assumption was that it was just "time to replace the seals" anyhow.. its about a year old and has had at least 6k miles of pretty rough times.. the last 200 or so probably race pace (or at least practicing race pace).

Again, I hope the "noise" I hear is fixed by replacing the water pump seals and impeller shaft (?).. cause thats still really my primary concern.

THANKS for your help TT is awesome!

~tommy

[TommyTheKid]

Diagnosis... BAD NEWS

Bottom End problems, crank shaft and bearings need replaced

As we suspected water pump seals, bearing and impeller.

Also suggested that there was considerable wear on the piston and cylinder and that should be replaced while its all taken apart.

They said the valves and cam look good

Looks like I am going to be out more than one race

~tommy

[davidl9999]

Sorry to hear that Tommy.

Do take the time to let the officals know about the water pump issues. Even if they're not directly related to the "coolant" mix you're required to use, if enough people complain, maybe they'll rethink their coolant (or lack of it) requirement.

Good luck!

[TommyTheKid]

OK, So I think its just coincidence on the water pump thing. Like I said, lots of people use that setup. Only one guy drained his radiator before going over the pass (that I know of). I also don't think it was cold enough to freeze for long enough.

The bottom end is what has me more concerned. I know the other day when I was practicing starts, I missed a shift and banged it off the rev limiter pretty hard for a few seconds. There were other people starting too, so I couldn't hear mine till I realized I was falling behind. The TrailTech Vapor said I was up to 10840RPM, which seems awful high, is there a way to change the rev limiter down to like 9999 RPM to help prevent damage?

~tommy

[davidl9999]

Hmmm...

afaik, the WR450F rev limiter is set to 11K, so the Vapor pegged it about right.

You can probably install one of these:

http://www.bigborethumpers.com/electric.html

and reprogram the rev limiter. Maybe there's one out there that's made for YZs and WRs.

But why would you want to? Dropping the rev limit might make the bike uncompetitive since you might need the 10k-11k range at some point in a race.

The factory rev limiter is designed to prevent catastrophic failure from high reciprocating loads and valve float, but introduces its own stresses from not firing the cylinder on every power stroke - not that one should spend much time on the rev limiter...

It seems to me that there's more stress on an engine from banging it back into gear after a missed shift than just hitting the limiter. I think that Lotus has it about right: If something doesn't break once in a while, they made it to heavy... ?

[TommyTheKid]

Very interesting, for now I will just have to be more careful. It sounds like they are going to try really hard to get it repaired under the service contract I bought, which would cover it without question had I not raced it

~tommy

[davidl9999]

Cool!

[TommyTheKid]

For what its worth, I got my bike back about a week ago, went through a "quick" break-in procedure at IMI on the Kart Track. I changed the oil at about 20-25 miles, then ran it in the SuperMoto 5280 series PPIR race. I didn't do well, but I attribute that to not having ridden it for over a month (and everyone else getting better). It feels like the engine is making more power than it was before, but I am sure thats just my imagination. The total cost on the invoices was about $2000, of which I paid about $12 for Water Wetter. The extended warranty really *really* saved my butt.

Tommy

[davidl9999]

Glad to hear that you're back riding it, Tommy. Now go get 1st! ?