What all tools do I need?


19 replies to this topic
  • CaptainKnobby

Posted April 29, 2009 - 10:55 AM

#1

I need to know what all tools I need to change the oil in my forks on my 06 450f.

Also the tools needed if I ever need to replace the seals and bushings and wipers.

Is there certain size in tools I need? example> 48mm wrench

  • grayracer513

Posted April 29, 2009 - 12:18 PM

#2

You need this particular fork wrench set, or the Motion Pro equivalent, which is sold in two separate parts, and a 48mm seal driver:

http://www.rockymoun...3#vehicleSelect

Bushings are removed during the seal replacement and require no tools.

  • Read the manual repeated before starting the job, hen again while doing the job.
  • When you get to the part about putting the rebound adjuster back onto the damper rod, where it starts talking about a gap between the nut and adjuster, read the manual, then put the manual down and read this post: http://www.thumperta...008#post8002008
  • Never clamp any part of the upper tubes in anything but the triple clamps
  • Clamp the lower tubes only by the axle lugs, or us a rod in the axle hole.


  • CaptainKnobby

Posted April 29, 2009 - 03:01 PM

#3

Will I need that syringe thing that draws up the fork oil to measure it or can I use just any kind of measuring device? Oh! and can I put the bottom part of the forks in a vice to hold them when working or is a vice or any other holding object not necessery when working on the forks?

  • grayracer513

Posted April 29, 2009 - 03:37 PM

#4

can I put the bottom part of the forks in a vice to hold them when working or is a vice or any other holding object not necessery when working on the forks?

This is what worries me about you:

  • Never clamp any part of the upper tubes in anything but the triple clamps
  • Clamp the lower tubes only by the axle lugs, or us a rod in the axle hole.


There is no critical measurement of oil level. The only place where it is specified, when pre-filling for preliminary bleeding, it is only important that you have the oil level at lest that high, and probably not more than a half inch higher.

  • CaptainKnobby

Posted April 29, 2009 - 04:35 PM

#5

Oh! sorry I need to pay more attention to wording:bonk: . I see now where you said "clamp only the bottom part of the fork legs" or run a rod through the axle hole.

  • nickeenoo

Posted April 29, 2009 - 06:12 PM

#6

I would tend to disagree with Gray a little on this one. And just for the record this will probably be the only time I disagree with him and I hope that the dirt bike gods will forgive me and my YZ450 forum privileges aren't revoked on account of my insolence.

You can "hold" the upper tubes in a vice provided you have the correct insert for your vice. I have some soft inserts that work well. Suspension shops usually have an insert meant to fit around the upper tubes of the fork. The critical issue is that you have no pressure points on the fork itself (flat vice - round fork) and that you don't use enough pressure to cause the fork to go out of round. The clamping power of a vice can easily crush or dent the tubes; be careful.

The lower tubes have the added caution of damaging the surface. Its critical that you don't scratch or ding the lower tubes in any way. Certainly this means no clamping in the vice with no covering over the vice jaws.

Also, do as Gray said and use the triple clamps to hold the forks when you are tightening/loosening the valve assembly. This way you can use adequate clamping pressure without damaging the forks. I loosen all the necessary parts of my fork before I take the front wheel off the bike that way I have no issues with holding things in place while I tighten/loosen. I should also say that I don't use the vice as a clamping tool, but as a holding tool only.

I use a Ratio Rite when measuring oil; 1 cc is equal to one ml.

  • matthew trachsler

Posted April 29, 2009 - 06:16 PM

#7

cap wring bolt wrench for sure and if there dual chamber forks ull need the wrench that goes on the damper part the silver part at the top of the forks i forget what its called and ull need a seal driver to put seals in but i did my forkw without any of those tools i made my own tools from steel cutting torches and a welder

  • grayracer513

Posted April 29, 2009 - 08:21 PM

#8

You can "hold" the upper tubes in a vice provided you have the correct insert for your vice. I have some soft inserts that work well. Suspension shops usually have an insert meant to fit around the upper tubes of the fork. The critical issue is that you have no pressure points on the fork itself (flat vice - round fork) and that you don't use enough pressure to cause the fork to go out of round. The clamping power of a vice can easily crush or dent the tubes; be careful.

I think you're wrong :banghead: That is, we don't disagree. My warning was based on the presumption that someone without a fork cap or base valve wrench would also be lacking any round vise adapters of the correct size. You're exactly correct.

Also, do as Gray said and use the triple clamps to hold the forks when you are tightening/loosening the valve assembly. This way you can use adequate clamping pressure without damaging the forks. I loosen all the necessary parts of my fork before I take the front wheel off the bike that way I have no issues with holding things in place while I tighten/loosen. I should also say that I don't use the vice as a clamping tool, but as a holding tool only.

You missed a chance here to add something I left out: Remember that the top triple clamp pinch bolts should be loose when loosening or tightening the cartridge/cap into the upper tube.

I use a Ratio Rite when measuring oil; 1 cc is equal to one ml.

This leads to another point I failed to make: The fork is fussy about the amount of outer chamber oil, so measure carefully. As little as 5~10cc one way or other can be the difference between harsh and too soft.

The manual of this fork is magnificently unclear on two points. One is the gap measurement thing I mentioned earlier, which has probably caused dozens of people to leave the jam nut unjammed, ruining their forks.

The other point is where the cartridge is filled and bled. The note on page 5-34 says, cryptically, "First bring the damper rod pressure to a maximum. Then install the base valve while releasing the damper rod pressure."

Well, of course, since there's no top on the damper, there can't be any pressure, so what are they saying? In English, they want you to fill the damper as described, then compress the rod all the way. At this point, insert the base valve while allowing the rod to extend as you do. Once the valve is screwed down snug, turn the damper on the horizontal, cover the exhaust holes with a rag, and compress the damper slowly, as far as it will go. If you do this right, it will force the excess oil and any remaining air, and the damper will be filled and bled.

  • CaptainKnobby

Posted April 30, 2009 - 02:58 AM

#9

cap wring bolt wrench for sure and if there dual chamber forks ull need the wrench that goes on the damper part the silver part at the top of the forks i forget what its called and ull need a seal driver to put seals in but i did my forkw without any of those tools i made my own tools from steel cutting torches and a welder


Gray said all I needed was the forkcap wrench and 48mm seal driver.

I believe I will get the oil measure filler that pulls the oil out and when it gets to the correct level it starts sucking air. I may also get the seal bullet for when you start to slide the seals on it keeps you from cutting them.

One thing no one has mentioned so far is ........Do you have to clean inside the outer cartridge of the fork with some kind of parts cleaner? I have seen the guy who reshimmed my forks do this when I have it serviced(like put new oil in and new bushings,seals) He puts the forks in this tub that has a continues flow of this red liqued that he uses to wash stuff.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 30, 2009 - 06:29 AM

#10

Gray said all I needed was the forkcap wrench and 48mm seal driver.

No I didn't. If you look at the link I posted, there are two tools in the set. Actually 3. There is the Cartridge/Cap ring wrench, which doubles as a rod holder, and the base valve wrench to remove the valve from the cartridge.

Use clean Mineral Spirits to wash out the forks. You can get it at any paint/hardware store.

You might benefit from taking the forks off the bike and going back to your suspension guy with them. Pay him to teach you to do this job right. It's actually not difficult at all, but there are several mistakes one can easily make.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Ga426owner

Posted April 30, 2009 - 07:03 AM

#11

You might benefit from taking the forks off the bike and going back to your suspension guy with them. Pay him to teach you to do this job right. It's actually not difficult at all, but there are several mistakes one can easily make.


Capt Knob....and anyone else thinking the same thing.

I highly recommend that before you embark on this journey for the first time, that you follow GreyRacers advice and take the fork and shock (they need to be done together if the oil is old enough)to a qualified Suspension tuner and ask him/her to show you the correct way to access both bearings top and bottom on the shock (high wear part) COMPLETELY dissassemble both the forks and the shock, Assess for any above typical internal wear, Clean every part the right way, inventory the valving/record this, reassemble with new seals (show you how to use a seal driver), and correct fill both with correct amts of oil and finally nitrogen for the shock. (Video it for your knowledge). Then go buy all the tools you need. There are nylon/plastic inserts for a vice that are designed for forks. After you do this yourself you will be masterful at servicing your suspension except maybe for the Nitrogen part.

And while your at it look at replacing the stock IC Springs with 1.3 -1.4 springs (these are cheap 39.00bucks) and add so much better action on braking bumps and square edged bumps with 350cc oil level

The reason to do the shock with the forks the first time....is to have a starting place for your continued suspension service. Afterwards the forks can be done 2 to 1 times or more depending on your riding and hrs on suspension. Otherwise the bike suspension will not be balanced.

my 2cents for the day :banghead:

  • CaptainKnobby

Posted April 30, 2009 - 07:42 AM

#12

I highly recommend that before you embark on this journey for the first time, that you follow GreyRacers advice and take the fork and shock (they need to be done together if the oil is old enough)to a qualified Suspension tuner and ask him/her to show you the correct way to access both bearings top and bottom on the shock (high wear part) COMPLETELY dissassemble both the forks and the shock, Assess for any above typical internal wear, Clean every part the right way, inventory the valving/record this, reassemble with new seals (show you how to use a seal driver), and correct fill both with correct amts of oil and finally nitrogen for the shock. (Video it for your knowledge). Then go buy all the tools you need. There are nylon/plastic inserts for a vice that are designed for forks. After you do this yourself you will be masterful at servicing your suspension except maybe for the Nitrogen part.

And while your at it look at replacing the stock IC Springs with 1.3 -1.4 springs (these are cheap 39.00bucks) and add so much better action on braking bumps and square edged bumps with 350cc oil level

The reason to do the shock with the forks the first time....is to have a starting place for your continued suspension service. Afterwards the forks can be done 2 to 1 times or more depending on your riding and hrs on suspension. Otherwise the bike suspension will not be balanced.

my 2cents for the day :banghead:


They already have been serviced (back in November) new bushings,wipers and seals and oil changed also the shock was done, TOTAL $251.78 that was OEM parts and labor.

Now my ass might be dumb but Iam not a dumbass. I just asked some simple questions concerning the job and just wanted some pointers on how to approach this.

When he first revalved my suspension and forks he was going so fast I couldnt keep up with all he was doing. Im not the type of person to just go up to someone and say "can you show me how this is done".

#1 they probally wont show cause it will be taking money out of there pocket and #2 they probally will say they dont have the time to explain.

I have never put a top end in a bike until back in like 2003 when I done my 03 yz 125 and then when I had a 05 yz 250 and now since I have a 4-stroke now I plan on doing it myself when its ready to need one.

Of course I missread things at times and I take more in by listening rather than looking and reading on this computer but its all I have to get information that I need so I have to deal with it.

I just hope that when the time comes that when I do really need to ask an important question when I get to the forks or the motor that someone here will tuck me under there wing and guide me in the right direction.

I like to ride and I like to race but I dont want to spend my whole earnings on paying the other man for something I probally could do.

I think the labor charges are way over than they should be but at the same time Iam glad that they are skilled people out there to do the job and I respect that.

A lot of times when people post things they arent real clear and I just misinterpretid some stuff. I thought Grey said when he typed down what I needed was just forkcap wrench ( I didnt now that wrench done 4 or 5 other jobs) I thought it just took the cap off the top of the forks.

As the seal driver goes I didnt think there was a speacial way you had to use it other than just put the two sides together to tap the seals up in the forks til they seated flush.

There is a first time for everything and they will be mistakes made but the only way to learn is to get in there and do it.....Am I right?

  • Ga426owner

Posted April 30, 2009 - 01:34 PM

#13

They already have been serviced (back in November) new bushings,wipers and seals and oil changed also the shock was done, TOTAL $251.78 that was OEM parts and labor.

Now my ass might be dumb but Iam not a dumbass. I just asked some simple questions concerning the job and just wanted some pointers on how to approach this.

When he first revalved my suspension and forks he was going so fast I couldnt keep up with all he was doing. Im not the type of person to just go up to someone and say "can you show me how this is done".

#1 they probally wont show cause it will be taking money out of there pocket and #2 they probally will say they dont have the time to explain.

I have never put a top end in a bike until back in like 2003 when I done my 03 yz 125 and then when I had a 05 yz 250 and now since I have a 4-stroke now I plan on doing it myself when its ready to need one.

Of course I missread things at times and I take more in by listening rather than looking and reading on this computer but its all I have to get information that I need so I have to deal with it.

I just hope that when the time comes that when I do really need to ask an important question when I get to the forks or the motor that someone here will tuck me under there wing and guide me in the right direction.

I like to ride and I like to race but I dont want to spend my whole earnings on paying the other man for something I probally could do.

I think the labor charges are way over than they should be but at the same time Iam glad that they are skilled people out there to do the job and I respect that.

A lot of times when people post things they arent real clear and I just misinterpretid some stuff. I thought Grey said when he typed down what I needed was just forkcap wrench ( I didnt now that wrench done 4 or 5 other jobs) I thought it just took the cap off the top of the forks.

As the seal driver goes I didnt think there was a speacial way you had to use it other than just put the two sides together to tap the seals up in the forks til they seated flush.

There is a first time for everything and they will be mistakes made but the only way to learn is to get in there and do it.....Am I right?






Capt Knob - I am not hinting that you are a dumb@$$. I found that this approach worked for me the first time I wanted to learn. I learn by doing and a video will help you do it right the first time(You Tube probably even has one)......I wanted to highlight for the one's that may be intimidated what approach worked for me.... You are more than welcome to go at it on your own. Follow the manual get a seal driver from RaceTech and some oil and go for it

how many hrs are on the suspension since Nov? This answer will tell u if you need to service both ends

  • CaptainKnobby

Posted May 02, 2009 - 07:35 PM

#14

Ga426owner

how many hrs are on the suspension since Nov? This answer will tell u if you need to service both ends[/QUOTE]

My forks and shock have 12 hours since the service back in November. I know it has not been long enough yet cause I seen somewhere that someone said about 30 hours before you hve them serviced or every 6 months or once a year. Me personally if Iam takeing it to have it done it will be once a season,if I can learn to do it myself it would be about every 15 to 20 hours I guess or when i thought it needed it.

I have been reading the manual for the last couple of days about two or three times a day. I understand how its done but there is only a couple of things they mention to do in the manual that I think is unclear.

One is on page 5-35 step 12 and 13 which was " While protecting the damper assembly with a rag (that is laid on the floor) you are suppose to press down on the damper rod til it is fully compressed to allow the oil to overflow on the basevalve side. Step 13 says "allow the oil to escape at the hole in the damper assembly.

Now is this the same oil that is over flowing from the basevalve side or is it something different. I seen where grayracer said that you held it horizontal to let it run out but what iam getting at is this.

When you have the damper assembly standing up and a rag on the floor and you compress the rod fully.......does the oil run out or overflow from a hole that is located somewhere besides the hole that they show you in step 13?

Step 13 they have a hole with a circle around it where the oil drains from when you tilt it. I see another hole in that picture on down below the one that they have circled and was wondering if this is the hole that the oil drains from while you have the rod on the floor and compress it fully like in step 12?

  • grayracer513

Posted May 02, 2009 - 08:45 PM

#15

Here's how that works:

When you filled damper and assembled the base valve into it in steps 4-6 on 5-34, you put more oil into the cartridge then there is actually room for. The process of compressing the rod in step 12 on 5-35 forces the excess out of the cartridge by raising the base valve free piston until it clears a limiting hole in the inner sleeve of the cartridge.

The illustration shows the cartridge in a vertical position. I prefer to hold the cartridge at a 30 degree angle or so with one of the aforementioned drain holes facing up to encourage any remaining air that didn't get excluded when the valve was dropped in to escape during this process.

Wrap a rag around the cartridge when you do this, as the excess oil will spit out far enough to make a mess otherwise. Only the two holes circled in step 13 will drain oil.

  • CaptainKnobby

Posted May 03, 2009 - 04:53 AM

#16

Here's how that works:

When you filled damper and assembled the base valve into it in steps 4-6 on 5-34, you put more oil into the cartridge then there is actually room for. The process of compressing the rod in step 12 on 5-35 forces the excess out of the cartridge by raising the base valve free piston until it clears a limiting hole in the inner sleeve of the cartridge.

The illustration shows the cartridge in a vertical position. I prefer to hold the cartridge at a 30 degree angle or so with one of the aforementioned drain holes facing up to encourage any remaining air that didn't get excluded when the valve was dropped in to escape during this process.

Wrap a rag around the cartridge when you do this, as the excess oil will spit out far enough to make a mess otherwise. Only the two holes circled in step 13 will drain oil.




Now I aint saying you are wrong but the book I have that I got when I bought the bike only has one hole circled in step 13 5-35.

This is whats confussiong! Somebody will tell you something different than what is in the book. Like step 11 "after you fill the damper (more than it can hold) You hold the damper assembly up and pump it up and down more than 10 times to spread all the oil (distribute) if you will.

Then in step 12 they want you to place a rag in the floor and put the damper rod on the rag to support it and then compress it fully(all the way) to allow the oil to overflow on the basevalve side.

Now by reading that it tells me that there is a hole somewhere on the basevalve. Now is the hole they are talking about here, the hole that is circled in step 13 5-35? In my book there is only one hole circled and you can see another hole right above the guys thumb in the picture.

What I cant understand is why do they want you to place the damper rod on a rag which is on the floor and pump it (or i should say compress it fully) ONE TIME AND ONE TIME ONLY! to allow oil to overflow through a hole located on the side of the basevalve, and then in step 13 want you to do the samething that you just did in step 12 but they are holding it at horizontal:excuseme:

Now what Iam getting at is.......Is the hole that is circled in step 13 (ONLY ONE HOLE CIRCLED IN MY BOOK) that they are calling the hole in the damper assembly, the same place where the oil overflows from the basevalve side.

If yes! how do they expect the oil to overflow when after you compress it (thats when the oil should overflow) you then hold it up (with the rod extended) at a horizontal (tilting it) if you will, to let oil run out.

To me it would make more sense to fill it with oil and then place the rag in the floor compress the rod fully and let what ever oil is in there to come out or overflow out and then hold it up and tilt it at a horizontal and see if any more will come out.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 03, 2009 - 08:15 AM

#17

When you actually have it in your hand, you will see that there is one hole on each side at "a" in the illustration.

The rag is simply to protect the threads; a piece of wood will do.

What you also cannot see from reading is that the cylinder that the base valve runs in is double walled. When the damper is compressed for the first time, the piston is forced upward until it is pushed up beyond the top of its normal range of travel, which opens a hole in the inner wall and allows oil out to the space between the inner and outer walls of the upper cartridge. That's why you have to tip it on its side to dump the excess.

You can compress the rod as many times as you like, but the excess will only be exhausted once.

I suggest that you wait until you see it and reread this while you are looking at it. It will make a good deal more sense at that time. Bear in mind, I have done this a good many times already, so it is from my own experience that I tell you this.

  • CaptainKnobby

Posted May 03, 2009 - 07:58 PM

#18

"Well Gray"..... Like I said my bike has 12 hours on it since the last service on the forks and shock. Now! Iam not going to get in a big hurry to do this job at the moment.

But Iam going to take in as much info as I can and learn to do this. I think as a rider and someone who has had dirtbikes there whole life that I should be able to work on them.

In your opinion how often should one change the fork oil if he races about 12 rounds a year and practices just on sundays when there is not a race?

I will most surly come back and read all this when it comes time to change the oil in the forks and I feel pretty confident in my self on doing it cause I will study up on it and take my time and I will see more than what the book shows.

  • dirtrider115

Posted May 03, 2009 - 08:02 PM

#19

Send em off to a pro shop and be done with it.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 03, 2009 - 09:28 PM

#20

Depends on the oil and on how hard you ride. Some oils degrade faster than others. 6 months should be plenty if you run a durable oil and don't notice any performance drop off. Some people can go with annual changes.





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