overheating, i need better coolant? maybe a fan?


74 replies to this topic
  • Deathdeelr

Posted April 26, 2009 - 08:23 PM

#41

do any companies make a coolant temperature gauge?


2468 - the Trail Tech Vapor has a coolant temp sensor that mounts inline in one of your radiator hoses - that's what I use on my street legal YZ


I took my first street ride with my newly assembled YZ this weekend and according to the Vapor I was cruising around with a temp of 170-185 (outlet from the head to the left side radiator). I got stuck in some traffic and she went up to 240; after I started moving again she dropped back down (I would recommend the Vapor to everyone). After reading this thread and the other links I will be adding at least a catch can.

My question is - the catch cans are obviously hooked to the spitter from the radiator cap neck. Where does the other tube coming off the can go? Is it a vent? How do you adjust the level in the can? Most catch cans on a car are above the radiator. How does it work when it's below the level of the cap? I'm asking because I'll probably make my own.

  • Treesmacker

Posted April 26, 2009 - 08:32 PM

#42

Have Brett at ICW increase the size of your lower radiator tanks to hold more fluid.
He did it to our little 50cc autoclutch bike for woods racing and it works great! Great quality and quick turn around too!
http://www.icwbikest.../Site/Home.html

  • swatdoc

Posted April 26, 2009 - 11:06 PM

#43

if using the APA catch can, the overflow tube from your radiator goes into the bottom of the can. the tube running out the top of the can is just a vent - I run it up near the steering stem and just zip-tie it to the frame. As you overfill your radiator with fluid, it will automatically run down the tube into the can, as long as you do it slowly. i fill my can to about 1/3 or so full when cold.

  • x2468

Posted April 26, 2009 - 11:19 PM

#44

I took my first street ride with my newly assembled YZ this weekend and according to the Vapor I was cruising around with a temp of 170-185 (outlet from the head to the left side radiator). I got stuck in some traffic and she went up to 240; after I started moving again she dropped back down (I would recommend the Vapor to everyone). After reading this thread and the other links I will be adding at least a catch can.

My question is - the catch cans are obviously hooked to the spitter from the radiator cap neck. Where does the other tube coming off the can go? Is it a vent? How do you adjust the level in the can? Most catch cans on a car are above the radiator. How does it work when it's below the level of the cap? I'm asking because I'll probably make my own.


i want the vapor. i always knew it was THE speedo to get. but i always thought it was really expensive. i just saw the price today and it's only like 130. for some reason this whole time i thought it was around 500 bucks

  • davidl9999

Posted April 26, 2009 - 11:33 PM

#45

hey guys on my 06 yz 450 it the real tight stuff where im not moving very fast it starts to overheat and just dumps out my fuild.. im running engine ice but i heard theres better stuff out there like evans coolant thats good up to 400 degrees? whats engine ice good up too?

so whats the best coolant you can run, also im thining about putting in a wr overflow tank on my bike to catch it all can i do that?

also has anybody ever put a fan on theses bike like the KTM has?


Evans NPG is straight Propylene Glycol. There's no water in it and that will most certainly make your bike run hotter! Just because your bike won't boil at 222F, doesn't mean that it's good to run your bike at 320F (just a guess on temp) without boiling. (NPG boils at 370F)

You might want to try Two2cool in your oil. I've never tried it, but I've read that it works and haven't seen anything bad on it. Maybe someone else knows more on this than I do.

Apparently you can add WaterWetter to Engine Ice and it will do some good: http://www.engineice.cc/faq.html

That seems like the cheapest option (WW w/Engine Ice), then that + Two2cool next, then adding a puke tank.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 27, 2009 - 06:44 AM

#46

At $16~18/half gallon, Engine Ice is far from cheap. The cheapest option is back on page one:

http://www.thumperta...470#post7985470

  • davidl9999

Posted April 27, 2009 - 08:54 AM

#47

Well, sure, gray. That makes perfect sense. Fwiw, didn't the OP say he already had EI in the bike? :banghead:

  • grayracer513

Posted April 27, 2009 - 11:06 AM

#48

Yes, he did. So, in his particular case, the cheapest thing is to do nothing as far as changing the coolant goes. On that point you are correct. One might even add a little water to it if it could be determined what percentage EI is mixed at.

But in general, for others wanting that info, Engine Ice isn't the lowest cost option. It is very good, but you pay a premium for the pre-packaging.

  • x2468

Posted April 27, 2009 - 04:11 PM

#49

Is the two2cool product an oil or oil additive? Do u use it every oil change? Is it expensive?

I also read two2cool has their own rad fluid. Anyone know its composition and boiling point?

  • davidl9999

Posted April 27, 2009 - 05:13 PM

#50

It's an oil additive, although they sell T2C oils. You can do 4 oil changes per bottle - 2oz T2C/quart oil. That's about $5/oil change + your oil.

Their coolant looks like Propylene Glycol or PG+water to me from their MSDS
http://www.two2cool....10078-10082.pdf
"HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS: None"
It's pretty lame that they don't list the ingredients, but I suppose it's their marketing geniuses making riders think that they have some super secret whamodyne formula that you can't get anywhere else on God's green earth. :banghead:

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • grayracer513

Posted April 27, 2009 - 06:23 PM

#51

"HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS: None"
It's pretty lame that they don't list the ingredients, but I suppose it's their marketing geniuses making riders think that they have some super secret whamodyne formula that you can't get anywhere else on God's green earth. :banghead:

That's their approach to their oil additive, too. There was a monumental discussion on the product during which a number of us attempted to get from a representative just any kind of general description of the dynamics of how it operates. Nothing. He refused to say more than "it works, we have testimonials, trust me."

  • finthat

Posted April 27, 2009 - 06:23 PM

#52

At $16~18/half gallon, Engine Ice is far from cheap. The cheapest option is back on page one:

http://www.thumperta...470#post7985470


Wouldn't using a low tox pre mixed coolant and a wetter be the same? I know the mixture is stronger with this reciepe but how much different can it be? I think all pre mixes us distilled water.

Just an observation

  • grayracer513

Posted April 27, 2009 - 06:26 PM

#53

Wouldn't using a low tox pre mixed coolant and a wetter be the same? I know the mixture is stronger with this reciepe but how much different can it be? I think all pre mixes us distilled water.

Just an observation

Wouldn't it be the same as what?

  • finthat

Posted April 27, 2009 - 06:35 PM

#54

Wouldn't it be the same as what?


Sorry, the same as that guys recipe with the distilled water, PG, wetter ect. as a cheaper and equal substitute to engine ice. But I guess you don't know what they have in the pre mixed stuff either.

  • davidl9999

Posted April 27, 2009 - 07:06 PM

#55

...But I guess you don't know what they have in the pre mixed stuff either.

Actually, yes.

1) PEG (or EG for the cheaper green stuff, which by the way has better "cooling" characteristics than PEG, but w/e...)
2) Distilled or deionized water
3) surfactants (like WaterWetter) - basically a chemical "soap"
4) Lubricants - soluble oil or similar slightly polar product
5) Corrosion inhibitors - like silicates (dissolved silicon/metal salts, not sand) or carboxylates (newer tech, but not great) or 2-EHA (new, horrible stuff)
6) pH buffers. Basically, other salts.
7) dye (maybe)

There is NO rocket science behind this stuff.

The chemistry (not that anyone asked...):
* Start off with distilled water (using the DI stuff straight in the rads will ruin your cooling system in short notice, but you can make it with DI if you buffer it properly later)
* Add surfactant to maximize Q (the ability to move heat from the engine into the water). A little goes a long way.
* Add PEG (purple) or EG (green) until the water doesn't boil at the high end of the operating temp/pressure in the bike. (cold weather formulas are slightly different)
* Adjust pH (basic) so you don't cause electrolysis in the engine or rads
* Add pH buffers so the pH doesn't change over time (add silicates...)
* Add some soluble oil so the water pump doesn't seize
* Add dye to make it pretty if need be

It's really a straightforward process and pretty much anyone can make the stuff in their garage for pennies. The proportions are "proprietary", but if you think about it, you can't put too much or too little of anything on the list or the product won't cool properly, so they're pretty much all "about the same" (well, all PEG/water blends are about the same as other PEG/water blends, and EG/water blends like other EG/water blends, and even then the cooling characteristics aren't that much different between the two families, just the boiling points and things like toxicity, viscosity, which are pretty minor factors, generally speaking). If we think someone's product is better than the next, us sheep will buy the "better" product. We're just human that way! :banghead:

The thing that makes me nervous about using "some guy's recipe" is if they don't use enough commercial coolant. You need enough of that stuff to minimize corrosion and lube the pump unless you add your own lubricant and buffers. It's kind of a big deal to run a dilute mix because the silicates can get used up quickly and start to fall out of solution (scale). Dilute solutions should be changed more often because of that.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 27, 2009 - 07:18 PM

#56

Sorry, the same as that guys recipe with the distilled water, PG, wetter ect. as a cheaper and equal substitute to engine ice. But I guess you don't know what they have in the pre mixed stuff either.

Low tox premix would contain more PG coolant than the recipe calls for, but it's another approach. You can assume all automotive pre-mixes are right at 50/50. His was 80% water.

And again, when using more than 20% coolant, the need for a surfactant like Water Wetter is debatable, but there's no harm in adding some.

  • buzzgrizz

Posted April 27, 2009 - 07:27 PM

#57

For your type of riding....tight stuff/woods
Use what the HareScramble /Enduro guys use

Evans Coolant - same stuff ZipTy sells
Boysen water pump/impeller kit


Gray does the Boysen water pump/impeller kit really help?

  • x2468

Posted April 27, 2009 - 08:06 PM

#58

That's their approach to their oil additive, too. There was a monumental discussion on the product during which a number of us attempted to get from a representative just any kind of general description of the dynamics of how it operates. Nothing. He refused to say more than "it works, we have testimonials, trust me."


what's you're opinion on the two2cool? i read one thread on here about a guy who had done everything but a fan to his ktm 300 to stop boiling, and when he switched to two2cool rad fluid and oil it fixed everything. i guess that's a bad test since we don't know what fixed it, the oil or the coolant.

  • ThumperKid250F

Posted April 28, 2009 - 02:15 AM

#59

Gray does the Boysen water pump/impeller kit really help?


i heared the boysen water pump kit works wonders on the bikes, im going to be ordering it tonight when i get off of work..


and man i never thought this thread was going to have so much good information..:banghead:

  • kingquad450

Posted April 28, 2009 - 02:38 AM

#60

I was looking at Spal fans,$75 for a trial is alittle high. I'll look for a cheap one first.


Check out these fans from ebay $35 free shipping

Spal puller fans





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