$8.00 a gallon for race gas? You're getting off lucky, here it's over $60 for a five gallon jug. But the metal VP C-12 container is cool.

As far as what additives do what, if you asked me 12 to 13 years ago, I could probably tell you some and send you literature from Sunoco for the others. Now? I don't remember.
I get the concept of slow burn fuel. If you're spinning the engine all day at 12,000 RPMs, I'd put money on it that you're going to do bad things to your exhaust valves/power valve and head pipe. In a two-stroke application, the most extreme theoretical complication I could see is still burning fuel igniting the intake charge that has entered the chamber which is then forced back into the cylinder.
That's the most extreme and I think everything would have to be absolutely perfect for it to happen. What would happen after that? I don't know. Probably either blown head, head gasket or bent connecting rod.
I personally wouldn't worry about it.

I think 35 hours of actual application without problems would be a testiment that it's harmless, 35 years is excessive data.

The chemists are few and far between, most are sworn to secrecy so you're not going to get much out of them.

If you run pump gas there's a lot of variation brand to brand and even batch to batch as it is changed winter to summer. Also consider it is now optimized for fuel injection systems as far as things like vapor pressure are concerned.

Overall I think there's way too much angst spent on this. The info's out there. Go find a fuel that works well within your budget and use it up.

Smacaroni said:

Thanks, I've been happy with it, but just can't give anyone any hard data why it works or doesn't so I'm reluctant to recommend it to people.

One interesting thing I read lately on an aviation site was a discussion about alcohol in the fuel. Seems that since some aircraft have received certification to burn auto fuel, there is pressure from aircraft owners and the FAA to prevent alcohol from being added to the Premium Auto fuel. If alcohol is added, the FAA will not allow it to be used in aircraft.

I have asked gas station owners about this and some have said that's true and that the premium grade doesn't have alcohol and that if it does, it has to be labelled on the pump. Problem is, that most pumps now can pump multiple grades and so they have the warning label on the pump, but they don't say if it's all grades that have it or only the mid and regular blend.

Regardless of whether I use AVGAS or not, I want to avoid any alcohol blended fuel if possible.

I would assume that if the pump says "fortified with 10% ethanol" that all the grades at that station contain ethanol.
If it says "may contain 10% ethanol", I'd bet that the 87 octane is E10, the 89/90 is E5 and the 92/93 is gasoline. HOWEVER! I wouldn't use any of those pumps if I were putting it in a plane. And I don't know the whys and wheres of ethanol in aviation, I'm simply saying this because it's not recommended and planes have a three dimensional "sphere" of disaster, where cars tend to have a unidirectional line of trouble.
FWIW, I have nothing against ethanol, E10, E85, E95 or E100, there's just too much to go wrong in a plane.
If I were buying gasoline for aircraft, I'd buy from someone who advertises "no ethanol in our gas".
The public's perspective on E10 is really screwed up right now, I don't remember any big to do about it back in the early 80s when "gasohol" was common in our area. From my auto/motorcycle logs, I've noticed no significant change in performance or gas mileage with E10. The last two years I've logged at least 10,000 miles/year on the motorcycle alone I've missed two or three fill-ups in the log and that's it.
Having said that, I'll reiterate that when it comes to planes it's a different animal and I wouldn't do anything that's advised against ever.

that would be funny to listen to habib betyourbooty try to explain gas ,'but if you buy a 32oz slushy i will throw in an incense burner':banana:

2PLY said:

ok you guys, my bike runs fine on pump gas, even on donner summit,but once in a while when im feeling wealthy i use vp race gas, pretty f-en simple!right?so lets go to chemistry central and discuss this further!best place to buy it?sam kinnison....................a f-en motorcycle shop!!!!!!!!!!!!but i dont like the red stuff cause then i lose that bitchen blue color!

On Donner Summit, you could run Regular unleaded... The higher the altitude, the less octane you need. Where were you when that was pointed out?

Wow, lots of good info here. I have now located the Sunoco that sells 110 CAM2 as well as a couple small airports close by, but I have not yet checked if they sell gas, or will sell to me in small quantities.

On another note, I am interested in these head spacers I keep hearing 2ply talk about. Do they make these for my bike (BETA REV-3) and if so where do you buy them? I'll be honest, the bike has more power than I need at the moment, so the ability to run lower compression, easier kickstarting, and as a bonus also run standard 93 pump gas seems kinda nice to me I figure if I ever feel like I'm lacking in the power department in the future, I can always remove the spacer!

One more thing: regarding this VP race gas, if it comes in a nice metal container I think it might be worth it to buy a 5 gallon jug, use it up, then re-use the container. Where can you buy this stuff? I have checked at the local bike shops...no-go.

My mechanic sells VP C-12 in bright blue 5 gallon cans. I managed to score some pre-mixed 32:1 off CL for free, however you can expect to pay $60-70 per five-gallon can.
OTOH, I wouldn't be surprised if you leave this unattended at a track, or more specifically on your trailer at a trail that someone is more likely to steal it, even if it's only got 87 octane pump gas in it, just because they think it's expensive. So take reasonable precautions when you leave it unattended.

As far as the general public, or I should say general thief is concerned, I'd bet they'd be less likely to steal it since it has no perceived value to them. The container looks like it could be farm chemicals. Around here, a company called "Valley Proteins" is who you call when a cow dies, so the VP logo is similar as well. I don't know how far or common Valley Proteins is outside of my area.

See the drawing here.

http://www.newenglan...t_04_motore.pdf

There's basically two simple ways to do this, use an additional base gasket under the cylinder or use another head gasket on top of cylinder. Base gasket slightly changes port timing. Head gasket is a little more straight forward. Ron Commo can get you any parts you need. Daddy Ron's not only the importer but the best source of Beta info that isn't in Italian.

RCS Racing/BetaUSA
Rt #7
North Ferrisburg, VT 05473
Tel: (802) 425-2081

One thing that I find is a problem for a lot of new riders is they don't have their carbs set up properly. If the response of the engine is not linear due to poor jetting its very easy to attribute that to a motor that is too powerful. One of the reasons I love my carbon fiber reeds is they smooth out the power curve in the low RPM and make for very tractable engine that still jumps like a scalded cat when you whack the throttle.

The other trick if you find the bike is getting away from you is to slightly retard the ignition timing. This has roughly the same effect as the extra head gaskets causing the engine to not burn all it's mixture at the optimum time due to a delay in the start of combustion. Using extra gaskets lowers the gas pressure in the combustion chamber which slows the flame front so again not all the mixture is burned at the optimum time. Both of these methods reduce the efficiency of the engine which will make it run cooler as well.

Just one other thing to check is make sure you have a black throttle tube. The white throttle tube is faster and takes some getting used to.

Dan Williams said:

My throttle is aluminum in material and color. Not black or white plastic.

BlackSCRunner said:

As far as I know, they were only made for Gas Gas and I believe one of the sources comes from the U.K. If you can't find info on them, you might give Adrian Lewis a call at LewisportUSA. That is where I bought mine and I know he gets them from some custom source. He should be able to find out if anyone can.

OK that's no help. Apparently there are two versions of the aluminum Domino throttle, fast and slow. Which one you have I can't tell without grabbing and twisting it. The slow throttle is almost impossible to get full throttle without really twisting your wrist way out of shape. The fast throttle is essentially a 1/4 turn beastie. Most new riders will find it easier to deal with the slow throttle.

so fast is a normal bike?

correct

no wonder i think the thing is tame... what is full beans normally is like half way. actually i just noticed this same face earlier today. i twisted the grip on my dad's bike and i thought a carb was sticking since it was stopping so fast, so i went to my bike, same thing, 1/4 turn or so... i went to the beta and it just kept turning

Typically Betas come with the slow throttle. My 08 is the first I've had that came with the fast tube. None come stock with the aluminum tube.

Dan Williams said:

So I looked through the parts box and the alternate throttle I have is all black and says beta domino. Maybe I'll try it to see if it's any different. This is the only trials bike I've ever ridden, so I really don't know what fast throttle is vs. slow throttle, although I'm guessing it's pretty apparent comparing the two. To me the throttle feels pretty sensitive. If it is the slow throttle that's on there now, it's safe to say I'll be sticking with it for a while

Oh also, In the brief time that I rode today I *think* I heard some minor pinging, so I really need to get a metal fuel container and make a trip out to Sunoco during the week. Or look into that head spacer a little more.

That black one is the slow thottle that came with the bike. Easy way to check, fast thottle is like a normal bike... 1/4 turn. slow thottle is about a half turn

Dan Williams said:

Dan and 2-Ply,

Do you guys have any problems with those MSR bottles building up pressure if they are in the sun...or on a hot day?

Or do you fill them up to the top so they have no vapor space?

I have a lead on a bunch of bottles, well a few anyways, in the back storage area of a Army Navy store.