All Japan Nationals Spy Pic - 2010 YZ450F NEWS


95 replies to this topic
  • Aka.Goose

Posted July 10, 2009 - 12:30 PM

#81

Anyone know where I can get more info on the All Japan National MX
(dates, venue, etc.)...I have a good friend living there...Might be a good time to plan a trip!

  • TooFast

Posted July 10, 2009 - 12:52 PM

#82

Actually my "perfect" Yamaha would be a YZ450F with an e-start, lighting coil , 18" rear wheel

and a 6 speed tranny

  • finthat

Posted July 11, 2009 - 09:18 AM

#83

Actually my "perfect" Yamaha would be a YZ450F with an e-start, lighting coil , 18" rear wheel

and a 6 speed tranny


I think they call it a WR450. You could buy a WR and mod up the engine and be ready to rock. Or buy a yz and mod it they way you want. Yami doesn't make a "cross over" bike. I don't think the demand is there plus if you cut up you production into 3 bikes almost the same costs would go up as well and one of them wouldn't sell as many. I doubt they would want to divide their own market like that. Just look at KTM's long list of bikes and ask them how many of each they sell.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 11, 2009 - 09:39 AM

#84

Just look at KTM's long list of bikes and ask them how many of each they sell.

Look at the total number of headlight-equipped KTM's sold compared to the number of WR450's sold. It isn't dividing a market, it's expanding it.

  • YZ450FIL

Posted July 11, 2009 - 02:00 PM

#85

I think they call it a WR450. You could buy a WR and mod up the engine and be ready to rock. Or buy a yz and mod it they way you want. Yami doesn't make a "cross over" bike. I don't think the demand is there plus if you cut up you production into 3 bikes almost the same costs would go up as well and one of them wouldn't sell as many. I doubt they would want to divide their own market like that. Just look at KTM's long list of bikes and ask them how many of each they sell.




I've never understood why the Japanese mfr's don't go after the offroad racer market more. Something along the lines of the XC KTM models. They have the frames and motor's already, it couldn't be that hard to build.

I don't know about the WR, but the CRX models don't sell very well at all and I doubt the WR does either. I bet a race offroad version of a YZ or CR would sell very well. Race motor with smoother power for offroad, 18" rear, and electric start, and maybe a tad softer suspension. I bet that bike would double the sells of the WR or CRX.

  • mxboy2661

Posted July 11, 2009 - 07:07 PM

#86

Efi is a good thing but first year anything will have its share of problems. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with carburetors and am very happy with my 09. Actually I think its kind of funny all the magazines down played this years Yamaha, this is the best bike I have owned in a long time.


i agree i have 2 09yz450's and i think there the best mx bike i ever had! i ve ridden all the 09's n there all good bikes, i just think alotta mags just play favorites, and who ever gives them there free swag, there gonna over exagerate there product... dirt rider is the worse though, i wouldnt listen to anything karel kramer says, hes like 90!

  • finthat

Posted July 12, 2009 - 08:45 AM

#87

I've never understood why the Japanese mfr's don't go after the offroad racer market more. Something along the lines of the XC KTM models. They have the frames and motor's already, it couldn't be that hard to build.

I don't know about the WR, but the CRX models don't sell very well at all and I doubt the WR does either. I bet a race offroad version of a YZ or CR would sell very well. Race motor with smoother power for offroad, 18" rear, and electric start, and maybe a tad softer suspension. I bet that bike would double the sells of the WR or CRX.


I think the Japenese may have a problem with moving into more of the KTM market due to ego problems. Just like a hyd. clutch, you can't tell me they couldn't come up with one of those in Japan?? If they decide to go into more product lines it might seem like they are admitting KTM has a good (better sometimes) product. I dunno I ride my '03 yz450f on trails no problem and if I decide a headlight is needed I'll get the parts to do it. All I might change up is buy and '06 or up for the extra gear. I have never ridden a WR but I am used to the yzf and I used to ride an old CR500 and I would say for all who think an 03 has too much snap for trails, spend a day or two on a 500 and the 450 will fell like a scooter, plus you will have longer arms after the cr drags you around flapping in the wind lol.

As for the mags. I think they are crapping on Yamaha because the 09 bike is old news which doesn't fill magazine pages well. They llike new stuff to whine about and shoot holes in about having too much power one year than not enough the next blah blah blah and that this bike turns better than the other but doesn't handle high speed straights well. I am sure if you dig up a "shoot out" mag from 15 years ago and change the years and pics of the bikes you could pull off the same articles. Yet I still buy them??? :worthy: Every one likes the new stuff.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 12, 2009 - 11:39 AM

#88

... like a hyd. clutch, you can't tell me they couldn't come up with one of those in Japan??

The fact is that there is no compelling reason to ditch the cable in favor of a hydraulic clutch when the current cable setups work as well as they do, and cost 1/8 as much or less to produce. I doubt there's any ego involved in that decision.

If they decide to go into more product lines it might seem like they are admitting KTM has a good (better sometimes) product.

I think they'd be saying, "We can build a better one of those."

... I ride my '03 yz450f on trails no problem and if I decide a headlight is needed I'll get the parts to do it. ... I used to ride an old CR500 and I would say for all who think an 03 has too much snap for trails, spend a day or two on a 500 and the 450 will fell like a scooter, plus you will have longer arms after the cr drags you around flapping in the wind lol.

I came off a CR500 just before the '03 YZ4540 I had. I had heard what a beast the '03 was, and like you, I had a little trouble seeing what all the fuss was about. But you know as well as I that the bike really is a handful, and a mellower demeanor is much less tiring in the woods. You'd like an '06 a lot.

As for the mags. I think they are crapping on Yamaha because the 09 bike is old news which doesn't fill magazine pages well.

I don't think you know how squarely you just nailed that one. :worthy:

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  • finthat

Posted July 13, 2009 - 02:58 PM

#89

The fact is that there is no compelling reason to ditch the cable in favor of a hydraulic clutch when the current cable setups work as well as they do, and cost 1/8 as much or less to produce. I doubt there's any ego involved in that decision.

I think they'd be saying, "We can build a better one of those."

I came off a CR500 just before the '03 YZ4540 I had. I had heard what a beast the '03 was, and like you, I had a little trouble seeing what all the fuss was about. But you know as well as I that the bike really is a handful, and a mellower demeanor is much less tiring in the woods. You'd like an '06 a lot.

I don't think you know how squarely you just nailed that one. :banana:


I would like to know my clutch is always set and some people in these forums would like and easier pull. The pull doesn't bother me.

I am not slamin' on Yamaha but I think KTM has a few good ideas more suited more for offroad riding/racing that could be adopted. I also think KTM has alot of bikes on the market and they could stream line their products. I spent time looking for a KTM last winter and there was a few times I would find a bike and not know what it was until I checked the KTM website. I guess I am ignorant to KTM's line up.

I have read enough mx mags in my day to know they need to have changes to approve bikes. One year its the best bike in the world and 2 years later its not worth starting if no changes were made. Plus you may notice there is usually never a hands down winner by a long shot ( at least I don't remember one). Its always if it wasn't for one thing or another that really isn't that important that the others loose...boils down to if you like blue bikes buy a blue bike if you like red buy red. I guess they don't want to piss of the manufacturers too much by slamming one or the other.

Hey my '03 is great for what I do....a little bit of everything. :worthy:
I stll want to see the new bike though. Always want what you can't have.

  • stroker

Posted July 14, 2009 - 07:47 AM

#90

Just a note on the Hydro clutch, did a WEC race last week (canada series of wec), my buddy on a KTM, me on a cable clutch RM250. Nasty uphill... the KTM clutch got softer and completely went away, we figure his slave cylinder actually boiled! My clutch got a bit soft, but worked fine.

All the ktm riders had trouble on that hill, they were p[arked all over it boiled out. (the ISDE in Greece had a similar hill, littered with boiled out KTM's, no doubt that hot engine can have a negative effect on the clutch).

My clutch pull is easier (and apparently more reliable) than his.

I am very happy with a cable clutch.

  • Wiz636

Posted July 14, 2009 - 08:15 AM

#91

Just a note on the Hydro clutch, did a WEC race last week (canada series of wec), my buddy on a KTM, me on a cable clutch RM250. Nasty uphill... the KTM clutch got softer and completely went away, we figure his slave cylinder actually boiled! My clutch got a bit soft, but worked fine.

All the ktm riders had trouble on that hill, they were p[arked all over it boiled out. (the ISDE in Greece had a similar hill, littered with boiled out KTM's, no doubt that hot engine can have a negative effect on the clutch).

My clutch pull is easier (and apparently more reliable) than his.

I am very happy with a cable clutch.


Not to get too far off topic, but I was there this weekend also and that never-ending hill on Saturday's course was TOUGH! Fortunately, I have the best clutch of all..a Rekluse Pro...and made it up both times without too much trouble. And yes, there were several boiled out KTM's.

  • Yamuma

Posted July 20, 2009 - 05:09 AM

#92

Yeah, you're right. Let's not let progress get in the way of being manly. In fact, let's go back to 4" of front suspension travel, ditch the CDI ignitions and go back to points with fixed timing, go back to air cooling, and drum brakes on 320 pound bikes with 35 hp, and dump rear suspension altogether. Then we'd really be real men.

I'm going to take the starter off my Z71 and turn it over with a crank.

HAHAHAHAHAHA Wow, That was an impressive come back.

  • Tau

Posted August 27, 2009 - 03:34 AM

#93

I hate you okes!!!!! my 06 Yz has been the most reliablebike I have ever had and now KTM has offered to help me with a new bike (discount) and race support and cheaper spares.

I need to choose wich KTM i am gonna buy, but just had my yz rebuild. And now I am like......maybe one more season.

I am not the fastest rider in my series at all but have won 2 out of the 5 races so far on a 4 season old yamaha. I mean I won a Ktm2010 250 2 smoke the other day..

Am I being super unthankful for the great service of my YZ or am I moving forward because of the support from KTM?????

2010 FI will be a great YZ no matter how the engine is installed.

Viva la YZ!!!!!

  • ProMed

Posted August 27, 2009 - 04:41 PM

#94

Yeah, you're right. Let's not let progress get in the way of being manly. In fact, let's go back to 4" of front suspension travel, ditch the CDI ignitions and go back to points with fixed timing, go back to air cooling, and drum brakes on 320 pound bikes with 35 hp, and dump rear suspension altogether. Then we'd really be real men.

I'm going to take the starter off my Z71 and turn it over with a crank.

Great reply, however, one thing that stuck out to me was the 320lb bikes part.

The dry weight of a 1973 Honda CR250M Elsinore was only 214lbs! Weight is one place I really wish the manufacturers would step it up and use modern technology to improve.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 27, 2009 - 05:42 PM

#95

Great reply, however, one thing that stuck out to me was the 320lb bikes part.

The dry weight of a 1973 Honda CR250M Elsinore was only 214lbs! Weight is one place I really wish the manufacturers would step it up and use modern technology to improve.

I think they have. The bike you mentioned was air cooled, which right away eliminates both radiators, the water pump, and about 3 pounds of coolant. It also lacked a power valve, and the fork was much lighter, I imagine, being such a small diameter piece.

As far as modern technology goes, I think I know what anyone would have said in 1973 if I had predicted a 4-stroke 250 that would produce power on a par with the Elsinore of the day by revving the engine to 12K, that it would be at least as reliable, if not more so, have 12" of travel at both ends, hydraulic disc brakes, water cooling, 3-d electronic ignition, and weigh 6 pounds LESS than the Elsinore, don't you? BTW, the dry weight of your 51+ hp '08 450 four-stroke is a whopping 5 pounds more that the '73 Elsinore. The real question should probably be, "Why does a YZ250 weigh so much?"

  • ProMed

Posted August 27, 2009 - 06:07 PM

#96

I think they have. The bike you mentioned was air cooled, which right away eliminates both radiators, the water pump, and about 3 pounds of coolant. It also lacked a power valve, and the fork was much lighter, I imagine, being such a small diameter piece.

As far as modern technology goes, I think I know what anyone would have said in 1973 if I had predicted a 4-stroke 250 that would produce power on a par with the Elsinore of the day by revving the engine to 12K, that it would be at least as reliable, if not more so, have 12" of travel at both ends, hydraulic disc brakes, water cooling, 3-d electronic ignition, and weigh 6 pounds LESS than the Elsinore, don't you? BTW, the dry weight of your 51+ hp '08 450 four-stroke is a whopping 5 pounds more that the '73 Elsinore. The real question should probably be, "Why does a YZ250 weigh so much?"

No doubt they have made progress elsewhere, but I would like to see them making equal progress in cutting weight. I have no doubt they could shave 10-15lbs off of the current bikes using more CF along with other alloys, but of course the real issue is money. With the current weight rules in place, they have little motivation to make any of the changes.





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