My evolving WZ


30 replies to this topic
  • erickdj

Posted February 15, 2009 - 07:04 PM

#1

The suspension has been upgraded to yz forks & shock.:banghead: :lol: Yesterday I upgraded to the 2006 yz450f cams.:eek: :eek: :lol: Special thanks to sjmc_don on this one. I took the opportunity to throw in a new cam chain while I was at it.:lol: Haven't had a chance to take out the bike for a good test ride, only short sprints on my street. The bike feels entirely different, it actually sounds different too. Like Don said when he had the cams, first gear seems "longer" for some reason. The engine pulls harder throughout the rev range and seems to pull harder and longer up top, feels like it has more over-rev than before. The bike is equipped with a full stock yz exhaust as well, so everything seems to work together in good harmony. It's looking like I've got quite the beast on my hands now.:busted: :bonk: It started immediately with the e-start after installing the cams, but once it got warm it got a little finicky to start with the e-start. I'm going to try leaning out the fuel screw slightly, if it doesn't help I'll just remove the e-start and battery altogether. I really don't need it that much.:eek: The cam installation went fairly smooth, no big hiccups, got it right the first time around.:bonk: Before removing the stock cams I checked the clearances, all but one were in spec. The intake valve out of spec was off only by .02, but once the new cams were put in place everything was right on spec.:worthy: :eek: I did take out the buckets & measured the shims so that If I ever need to adjust them I'll know which size I need before tearing into it. Can't wait to take it out for a serious ride.:lol: Depending on how things go I might end up removing the battery, e-start, lights, and odometer. But it might not come to that, we'll see.:eek:

Before:
Posted Image

After:
Posted Image

  • spidennis

Posted February 16, 2009 - 05:38 AM

#2

If I can suggest, not so large of a pic next time? makes reading the text really difficult.

yz forks huh? I was thinking about doing the same thing.
when doing this what do you have to watch out for or allow, mod or whatever?
do you just unbolt the wr forks and slip in the yz forks and you're done?

  • erickdj

Posted February 16, 2009 - 07:55 AM

#3

If I can suggest, not so large of a pic next time? makes reading the text really difficult.

yz forks huh? I was thinking about doing the same thing.
when doing this what do you have to watch out for or allow, mod or whatever?
do you just unbolt the wr forks and slip in the yz forks and you're done?


sorry about the pictures, I forgot to re size them.

The yz forks truly are the hot ticket for the WR. There's nothing to watch out for, all you need is a set of 2007 yz450f forks, they are a direct bolt-on mod. Just remove the old ones and put the new ones in!.:lol: The 2008 yz450f forks will fit into the triple clamps, but they would require a 2008 yz450f brake caliper as well, so those wouldn't be so much of a direct bolt-on. So the key is just finding a set from an 2007 and you're done.:worthy:

  • spidennis

Posted February 16, 2009 - 08:02 AM

#4

I've got an 03' model, so I gather I have to stay within the same age period in order to fit up? it's got to fit the triple trees on the top end, and the brake assembly on the bottom huh?

  • erickdj

Posted February 16, 2009 - 08:09 AM

#5

I'm not too familiar with the steel frame models, but I know that the wr and yz bikes share parts by 'generations', so you'd just have to match it up with the right generation yz parts. Fitment needs to be equal for the triple clamps, brake caliper, and axle.

  • spidennis

Posted February 16, 2009 - 08:16 AM

#6

gotcha! now just gotta find some 03-05ish yz stuff ....

  • erickdj

Posted February 16, 2009 - 08:27 AM

#7

ebay is wonderful for that.

  • SJMC_DON

Posted February 16, 2009 - 10:42 AM

#8

Looks like you made quick work of it and the job went real smooth:thumbsup:

If you totally unload this thing make sure you report the final weight, that would be an awesome off road / desert race bike... despite the fact you'll have to kick it:busted:

  • erickdj

Posted February 16, 2009 - 12:44 PM

#9

Looks like you made quick work of it and the job went real smooth:thumbsup:

If you totally unload this thing make sure you report the final weight, that would be an awesome off road / desert race bike... despite the fact you'll have to kick it:busted:


It did go fairly quick and smooth, it would have gone quicker if I hadn't had to stop and get an impact wrench for the flywheel nut, I thought I only needed the flywheel puller, but I was wrong...

I still don't know if I'm going to strip it down completely, but I don't think I'd miss the e-start that much. The bike starts great with the kickstart, and I've been using my yz for a few months already, never had a problem with kicking it. If it does get stripped down it should be pretty close in weight to the yz.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted February 16, 2009 - 01:30 PM

#10

That valve that was tight, was it the middle intake?
Start to finish how long did it take to swap cams?
Do you think that blue/white wire mod will help with the starting once its warm?

Which YZ cams are the best? I know the '06 cams are pretty gnarly on the bottom end but I think I remember grayracer saying the '08 cams take the best of the '06 and the best of the '07 cams (mid to top) and put it into one package.

No doubt I will probably open my wallet to buy cams after I get the opportunity to ride your bike Erick. And for that, I hate you :worthy: :banghead: :lol:

:busted:

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • erickdj

Posted February 16, 2009 - 02:17 PM

#11

That valve that was tight, was it the middle intake?
Start to finish how long did it take to swap cams?
Do you think that blue/white wire mod will help with the starting once its warm?

Which YZ cams are the best? I know the '06 cams are pretty gnarly on the bottom end but I think I remember grayracer saying the '08 cams take the best of the '06 and the best of the '07 cams (mid to top) and put it into one package.

No doubt I will probably open my wallet to buy cams after I get the opportunity to ride your bike Erick. And for that, I hate you :banghead: :busted: :worthy:

:lol:


The tight valve as the left side intake valve(left if sitting on the bike, ignition cover side). The valve was right on spec with the new cam, though. Start to finish I'd say it's like a 4 hour job, not racing through it, making sure everything is done right and double checking some things. I could probably do it a little faster next time, now knowing the whole process. Not sure if the blue wire would help, but it would kinda defeat the purpose of installing the cams in the first place. Plus the theory out there is that the problem comes from the decomp pin, so more of a mechanical issue that the "wire" probably wouldn't fix.
I don't think the 08 cams would be better than the 06, not for "brute" power delivery off the bottom. In fact, the latest I've seen is that gray recommends adding the 06 exhaust cam to the 08 yz's to give them a more brutal power delivery. So maybe 06 exhaust + 08 intake?

Yeah, you better start putting some cash in that wallet, you'll need it.:lol:

  • JSanfilippo

Posted February 16, 2009 - 02:47 PM

#12

IIRC the blue/white wire mod makes the starter light the bike in 1 revolution as opposed to three (gets rid of the two dead revolutions) someone correct me if I'm wrong

I know about the decomp pin being in the wrong spot and dumping too much compression for the e-start to work properly. What I was thinking was instead of taking 6 or 9 revolutions to start w/o the wire mod it would take 2 or 3.

My question is does your WR with '06 YZ cams it hit as hard off the bottom as your YZ? Thats really my only complaint right now with my bike is the response in the first 1/8th of throttle travel is kinda mellow. Pulls cleanly, but kind of mellow.

The additional over-rev and midrange power would just be icing on the cake

  • erickdj

Posted February 16, 2009 - 02:54 PM

#13

IIRC the blue/white wire mod makes the starter light the bike in 1 revolution as opposed to three (gets rid of the two dead revolutions) someone correct me if I'm wrong

I know about the decomp pin being in the wrong spot and dumping too much compression for the e-start to work properly. What I was thinking was instead of taking 6 or 9 revolutions to start w/o the wire mod it would take 2 or 3.

My question is does your WR with '06 YZ cams it hit as hard off the bottom as your YZ? Thats really my only complaint right now with my bike is the response in the first 1/8th of throttle travel is kinda mellow. Pulls cleanly, but kind of mellow.

The additional over-rev and midrange power would just be icing on the cake


Ok, I see what you're saying about the blue/white wire. I'll look into that, thanks for the tip.:lol:

I haven't had the chance to give it a "good" test ride, but from what I could tell, it is definitely getting into yz territory with the new cams. I had a friend that rides a yz400f, he could tell too that it was much better than before. Then I had my dad try it out, he could feel it too. Doesn't have that "wr mellow" start anymore.:worthy:

  • JSanfilippo

Posted February 16, 2009 - 02:59 PM

#14

Doesn't have that "wr mellow" start anymore.:lol:


Thanks for the quick reply! Thats what I wanted to hear.

  • SJMC_DON

Posted February 16, 2009 - 09:18 PM

#15

I had already done the blu/wht wire mod before the YZ cams... it made no difference, the bike still would not e-start... especially when warm.

Erick - It definitely kicks easier now, huh?

The power change notice on low end for me was not a hard massive hit but more like one of those tractor pullers with the 7 blown big block Chevy engines, just really strong... keep yer feet on the pegs or running real fast fred flinstone style or the bike will just slide you off the seat on tight uphills in the woods

I did one race with the YZ cams in and it had a MX section in it and I could tell the difference there too, especially if you rode it like a two stroke always keeping the engine rpm's in the mid range and then rolling it on for bigger jumps or corner to corner straights... thats where the WR gearbox gives you the advantage.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted February 16, 2009 - 10:39 PM

#16

I wonder if just swaping the exhaust cam would give me the response I'm after. I read somewhere on here from TTer beezer that he put an '08 YZ exhaust cam in his WR and it made it just as fast as a YZ 450f.

The power of my bike is pretty damned dialed. The off idle response is what I want to change. Its not a jetting issue, its just mellow for that first 1/8th throttle travel. I felt like the off idle response of Erick's YZ was perfect...of course that bike is much lighter than a WR and has practically no flywheel weight so that probably had something do with it...

Sorry for the hijack

  • erickdj

Posted February 17, 2009 - 10:14 AM

#17

I had already done the blu/wht wire mod before the YZ cams... it made no difference, the bike still would not e-start... especially when warm.

Erick - It definitely kicks easier now, huh?

The power change notice on low end for me was not a hard massive hit but more like one of those tractor pullers with the 7 blown big block Chevy engines, just really strong... keep yer feet on the pegs or running real fast fred flinstone style or the bike will just slide you off the seat on tight uphills in the woods

I did one race with the YZ cams in and it had a MX section in it and I could tell the difference there too, especially if you rode it like a two stroke always keeping the engine rpm's in the mid range and then rolling it on for bigger jumps or corner to corner straights... that's where the WR gearbox gives you the advantage.


Well, there might be some hope with this e-start thing. It does e-start when cold, in fact, that's how it started the first time after the cam install, and it started very easily. It looks like I drained the battery from trying to e-start it when warm on saturday, so I put the battery on the trickle charger for a few hours. Last night I did the blue/white wire, put the battery back in, started the bike with the kickstart and let it warm up. I then tried the e-start, I got it to start once but it was with the choke on. There wasn't enough charge to keep trying different methods. But it looked like it should start if there's more charge on the battery and maybe an adjustment to the fuel screw. Another option would be a stronger battery with more cranking power, but I haven't seen one.

The kickstarting process isn't really that different, couldn't really tell.

I'm thinking you didn't feel that massive low end power delivery because you were still running the stock exhaust, I'm running a full 06 yz system, so that might have something to do with it. I'm not really worried about the bike slipping from under me, the yz450 I ride has a hellish pull to it that requires hanging on really tight in all situations, couldn't be worse than that I guess. JSanfilippo can vouch for the hit of that beast.

I like keeping the bike in the meat of the powerband too, I don't ride much MX stuff, but I still like to ride "ballz to the wall" in the trails as much as I can. The yz I can keep in 3rd gear most of the time, I hope I can do the same with the wr.

Getting back to the e-start subject, I read a post from someone that had removed the e-start from his wr and said that he also removed the big gear behind the flywheel. He said there was extra snap in power due to the reduced flywheel weight. I'm thinking there might be something to that, since I remember that gear being quite heavy, along with the other small two gears that connect to the starter clutch, and the starter clutch itself. Now that I think about it, there must be significant drag on the crank due to all those gears, leading to some power/snap loss. My head is spinning at this point.

  • erickdj

Posted February 17, 2009 - 10:24 AM

#18

I wonder if just swaping the exhaust cam would give me the response I'm after. I read somewhere on here from TTer beezer that he put an '08 YZ exhaust cam in his WR and it made it just as fast as a YZ 450f.

The power of my bike is pretty damned dialed. The off idle response is what I want to change. Its not a jetting issue, its just mellow for that first 1/8th throttle travel. I felt like the off idle response of Erick's YZ was perfect...of course that bike is much lighter than a WR and has practically no flywheel weight so that probably had something do with it...

Sorry for the hijack


It might be worth a shot to try the 08 exhaust cam, that might be the best bang for the buck if the intake cam doesn't make a $180 kind of difference.

I think the "mellow" 0- 1/8 throttle response is a product of the stock wr cam timing. When I started the bike last night I could tell that even at idle the sound was somewhat more throaty and solid. Like a chevy truck with stock exhaust vs. one with a flowmaster dual exhaust. Then I revved it up a bit and the solid sound was there all the way to the top. It doesn't have the same note my yz does because the yz has a Dr.D system, but it's more similar to that than to the typical wr sound note. Damn, I can't wait to take it out for a good test ride.:lol: :banghead:


Thread hijacking is welcome by me.:worthy:

  • erickdj

Posted February 22, 2009 - 10:35 AM

#19

So, I finally had the chance to take the bike out for a real ride after doing the latest mods.:bonk: First time taking out the bike since installing the new 06 yz cams and 07 yz suspension. I went to a riding area where the terrain is quite challenging, it's rocky, rutted, highly difficult in some areas, and it was also wet in some spots.:banghead: Exactly the kind of place I needed to put this bike to the test. I'll break this down in two parts, suspension and engine.

1.) Suspension: Light years ahead of stock.:lol: The ride was firm, yet not harsh at all. I could immediately tell that the bike turned better and absorbed terrain irregularities very well. In the morning I rode it just the way it got delivered to me, no adjustments or anything, just trying it out. I did notice that the front was just a bit softer than I wanted and the rear too. I noticed this because on some jumps the front end would compress a little more than I would like, and the rear wasn't very "planted" and traction suffered a little because of it. I went back to the truck after a couple hours and made some adjustments to the clickers. The front end worked just the way I wanted it to after that, and the rear was much more planted and traction improved. The only thing that needs a little more dialing is the rear, it tends to come back a little too fast and kind of kicks a little bit, but once I set the sag and dial it a little more it should be perfect. 9.5/10 rating on the suspension so far, will be 10/10 once the rear gets dialed properly.

2.) Engine: Wow, where do I start. The first thing that popped to my head when riding it was "HOLY $#1t!".:bonk: Power was awesome, more of it everywhere in the rev range. It was pretty violent in it's delivery, definitely more yz-like. Wheelspin increased quite a bit, it took a different approach to be able to put the power to the ground effectively. One thing that I noticed was that the engine became much more luggable in every gear, it was happy to be lugged around. During the morning run it was hard to lift the font end to clear obstacles or ruts, because it would simply spin the rear tire loose and keep moving forward. But after tightening the rear end it became much easier to lift up the front, still took some time to figure out how to find traction. Having a rear tire with about 40% thread left probably didn't help things. Tight, rocky and rutted uphill trails were just too easy in 1st gear, hardly any clutch needed to go up them, almost felt like cheating.:lol: I'll have to rate the cam mod a 10/10, the new power the engine is putting out is just awesome.:busted:

After unloading the bike at the staging area in the morning I pushed the "on" switch and the speedo never came on. That's when I remembered that I had not put the battery back in after putting it on the tricke charger.:lol: :worthy: So I had to ride without a battery. The bike worked fine without it, the only funny thing was to see the speedometer indicating 150mph when the bike was just idling warming up, that was just too funny.:eek: So I had to take out the roll of vinyl tape and cover the battery leads under the seat, no big deal. Given that I had no battery, I was unable to test out the e-start. But I gotta say, the bike did feel more flickable without the 5lbs battery, it's probably not so much that it's 5lbs, but that it's a the top of the bike, raising the center of gravity. Truth be told, I didn't miss the e-start one bit all day, I was happy to kick that thing every time. All day we rode hard technical areas and it was never a problem to kick the bike.

Overall, I'm extremely happy with the results so far, it's all been worth it. Makes me think that this is exactly the way Yamaha should have built the bike to start with, it's a killer bike now.:lol: So far it's all been modded using OEM yamaha parts: cams, exhaust, suspension, and all the free/cheap mods. Definitely looking forward to the next ride.

  • erickdj

Posted February 23, 2009 - 09:22 AM

#20

Since I like this new setup so much, I've been tossing around the idea of adding a WR 1st and 5th gears to my yz, that should make things interesting.:lol:




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.