New Battery


71 replies to this topic
  • Navaho6

Posted March 11, 2009 - 08:11 PM

#21

Doesn't Joe recommend a 5a battery for the 450 thumper? Isn't the WR battery about 6a.

Joe's 5a battery is $130, over twice the cost of a standard lead-acid battery. I'm sure it's a good battery but are the benefits worth double the cost?

  • WR_Dave

Posted March 12, 2009 - 03:03 AM

#22

Doesn't Joe recommend a 5a battery for the 450 thumper? Isn't the WR battery about 6a.

Joe's 5a battery is $130, over twice the cost of a standard lead-acid battery. I'm sure it's a good battery but are the benefits worth double the cost?


The WR battery is a 6 AH battery and yes Joe does recommend the 5 AH for the WR 450. However he says that the 5 AH is recommended for anyone who regularly starts their bike cold. Due to the starter having plastic bushings and the engine having a kick starter I have enough disicline to start my bike for the first time every ride using the kicker and then using the e-start after it is warmed up. The chemical make up of the LiFePo battery doesn't require it to have the same AH rating to do the same thing the Lead acid battery does due to no voltage sag while starting. As for the price, sure it's more money than a regular lead acid batery, but I and a few others here are willing to give this "technology" a shot at our own expense. If all I wanted was less weight , I could stop drinking beer and ordering pizza and wings, but I personally was interested enough to give it a go. My bike starts much better everytime and it wasn't bad before I changed over. Pricewise it may not be for everyone, but it sure is nice to know that there are those of us out there who can now report back after putting them to use. Time will tell if it is worth double the cost, but Joe is an honest, straight forward kind of guy who beleives in this technology and I don't get the impression he is out to just make a quick buck here. TT has always been where you will find this kind of info at no cost to you. :) WR Dave

  • Mrmonk7663

Posted March 12, 2009 - 03:49 AM

#23

I talked to Joe and he told me for my application the 2.5ah would work fine. I bought his 2.5ah battery and installed it in my bike. Works fine. I kick start the bike when cold, and use electric start the other times. Electric start is nice, but not worth it for cold starting no matter how big my battery is.

Thanks,
Mike

  • battery man

Posted March 12, 2009 - 10:26 PM

#24

Good info WR_Dave, this post from JoeT seems to sum it all up for those wanting to shave a couple pounds.

To answer most of the questions I have seen.

1. Cost
$70 for the 2.5Ah 130 for the 5Ah. The weights are ~0.8lbs for the 2.5Ah ad 1.7lbs for the 5Ah. Normally it would be plus shipping but right now I am going to ship for free.

2. How to I connect it?
Basically plug and play. I will be providing bolt/nuts so all that has to be done is connecting the positive battery terminal to the positive wire and like wise on the negative side. Just like a normal battery. HOWEVER, you will need to find a way to keep it tight in the battery box as it is much smaller than the standard battery.

3. Will they charge?
They will charge just like a normal lead acid battery, you don't need to do anything special. However, if your system requires more power than the bike is producing it will eventually drain the battery. If you need more power from the system the battery will not increase the power the bike is putting out.

4. Are they Lithium batteries?
Yes, but they are a completely different chemistry than the batteries that power laptops, cell phones, and Ipods. The chemistry is called Lithium Iron Phosphate.

5. Do you have a website?
No, right now I don't, it is the works.

6. How do we contact you?
PM or email at turnerjo@hotmail.com

7. Is there a warranty?
I am evaluating if/how the warranty will be done. Right now there is not a warranty.

8. What type of payment do you accept?
Paypal, the payment methods will expand when the website is done.

9.What have you put the batteries in?
In different configurations, CBR600, Honda Odyssey minivan, KFX 400 4 wheeler (wifes no flames please), KTM's, and Yamaha's of various sizes. Some have been in for over 2 years.

10. Can you make a special battery different at a different voltage or amperage?
Yes I can,it will be slightly more expensive as it would be a one off but can easily be done. contact me with your needs.

Modirators-if I have broken any rules let me know so 1. Don't do it again and 2. Fix it so it can happen again.

Thanks
Joe

3. Will they charge?
They will charge just like a normal lead acid battery, you don't need to do anything special. However, if your system requires more power than the bike is producing it will eventually drain the battery. If you need more power from the system the battery will not increase the power the bike is putting out.

So how does the battery not overcharge?

  • battery man

Posted March 13, 2009 - 08:19 PM

#25

Hi Dave,
how does Joe get the battery to not overcharge?
Can you tell me what the voltage of your battery is when you are done with a long ride. I'd bet it is pretty high?

  • WR_Dave

Posted March 14, 2009 - 08:54 AM

#26

Due to it still being winter here, there won't be any long term tests for a few weeks yet. There are other guys that have had Joes battery for a few years now with no problems. I would think that the voltage would be kept in check the same way the lead acid battery would be kept from overcharging in the stock system. WR Dave

  • NMNORGE

Posted March 14, 2009 - 10:28 AM

#27

Due to it still being winter here, there won't be any long term tests for a few weeks yet. There are other guys that have had Joes battery for a few years now with no problems. I would think that the voltage would be kept in check the same way the lead acid battery would be kept from overcharging in the stock system. WR Dave


I ran a pigtail from the batt to the hole in the side panel. I'm going riding tommorow and will do some voltage checks on my 5AH Turner batt.:)

  • battery man

Posted March 15, 2009 - 08:17 AM

#28

I am under the impression that the stock system has no Cut Off. It will switch from a quick charge of let's say 3 amps to a trickle charge of .6amps. That's what my manual says.

I also thought that my stock lead acid battery is made to be constantly charged. Unlike lithiums. Even the new safe lithiums.

I have seen a lot of lithium charge adapters for the new style of lithium cells in the hobby world. They all cut the voltage to 13.2 to 14.4 volts. None of them charge to 16.5 volts (16.5 vdc is the maximum cell voltage, from what he tells me).

  • battery man

Posted March 15, 2009 - 08:26 AM

#29

Sounds like a good test. I think what you will see is high voltage above 15 vdc. From what Joe says it should not go over 18 volts.

If that is the case, then after the battery sits unused (let's say 2 hours) does the battery voltage come down. I think it will. Probably to a nominal 13.2 to 14.5 vdc.

Does a lead acid battery voltage charge way up then the does it come down as it sits?

  • NMNORGE

Posted March 15, 2009 - 01:05 PM

#30

OK, new Turner 5AH batt installed, never used 13.69 vdc
After start-up using e-start 13.34 vdc
After 1 hour of trail and road riding-bike running 14.3 vdc
After turning bike off 14.3 vdc
After another 1/2 hour of riding-bike running 14.3 vdc
After 1 hour of beer drinking-bike off 14.0 vdc

After looking in the WR shop manual, charging voltage for the WR is 14.1 to 14.9 vdc at 5,000 rpm. I took my VDC measurements at idle. It would appear that the Turner battery works fine with the WR voltage regulator.

Edit: just went out and measured vdc with bike running at roughly 5,000 rpm (1/2 throttle) Regulator voltage never exceeded 14.5 vdc.

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  • WR_Dave

Posted March 15, 2009 - 01:43 PM

#31

Sounds like a good test. I think what you will see is high voltage above 15 vdc. From what Joe says it should not go over 18 volts.

If that is the case, then after the battery sits unused (let's say 2 hours) does the battery voltage come down. I think it will. Probably to a nominal 13.2 to 14.5 vdc.

Does a lead acid battery voltage charge way up then the does it come down as it sits?


Sorry Battery man, how is the battery going to go over 15 vdc when the charging circuit is regulated DC voltage of 14 - 15 vdc? Your manual should also say that the charging circuit is regulated. :banghead: Anyway, I was interested in this technology and thought I would share with the crowd. If this isn't your cup of tea then feel free to try something else. And thanks for the test info NMNORGE. :) WR Dave

  • battery man

Posted March 16, 2009 - 08:36 AM

#32

Great

  • battery man

Posted March 16, 2009 - 08:39 AM

#33

My Honda charged to 17 volts. Don't get offended Just asking.

  • JoeT

Posted March 18, 2009 - 12:29 PM

#34

First,

thank you Dave, you've been a great champion of my battery.

If your Honda is charging to 17 volts you are going to boil the acid in the Lead acid battery. Have your system checked out.

To answer the question on how the battery doesn't get over charge, it is the same reason the lead acid batteries do not overcharge. Most automotive and motorcycle systems (actually every one I have ever seen) limit the charge voltage to ~15V. Lead acid life begins to be ruined when you go much over that limit. The systems have been set up to carefully protect the lead acid battery.

The voltage range of lead acid is 10-15V, the voltage range of LFP is 8-16.5V. So if your going to overcharge my battery your going to overcharge your lead acid.

The RC world is using "LiPo" batteries. This are often confused with LFP as LFP is often Called LiPO4 or LiFePO4. "LiPo" batteries are made with lithium Cobalt oxide (LCO) and have a different voltages and different voltage ranges, and are very sensitive to being overcharged. When LiPo's are overcharged they basically explode.

http://www.rcgroups....20#post11384716

When LFP is overcharged you being to lose life. The higher it goes above 16.5v the more severe the reduction in life. The odds that any LFP cell is going to react like the LiPo's in the video above are almost ZERO.

SO IF your electrical system isn't working right and the batteries get overcharged worse case is that they just won't last as long as they should.

The numbers that NMNORGE got are exactly what I would expect.

I do recommend the 5Ah for the 450's, as Dave pointed out this is so you never have to kick. Many of the people I sell to not only don't have a kick starter but they have a autoclutch as well. If the battery doesn't work their day is done, and there not happy. If you don't mind kicking for the first start if it's cold then the 2.5Ah is sufficient. I have a 2.5Ah in my bike (450sx) and live where it's never very cold.

Last point, cost. The cells cost a lot. There is another post where there are 4-5 different companies listed that sell LFP batteries. I think my batteries are reasonably priced (I'm not getting rich doing this).

I suspect that when the costs begin to come down, LFP with not only replace lead acid but also NiCd and NiMh.

  • NMNORGE

Posted March 18, 2009 - 12:44 PM

#35

I gave up my beloved XR400 for a bike with e-start, so I want the best battery. Like WR Dave said the Turner battery does not fall off in cranking power. The lead acid battery will fall off. Enough said!!!!

  • WR_Dave

Posted June 02, 2009 - 06:43 PM

#36

UPDATE-----OK, after some, finally, summer riding conditions, I can report on MY fndings on Joes batteries. THe battery works flawlesly for starting the bike after it has been warmed up. As Joe told me , I should have used a 5 ah battery for the 450 if I want it to start from cold off of the battery. The 2.5 ah doesn't have quite enough power to cold start a 450, it starts my buddies 250 everytime though. After riding and getting the bike warm, the Turn Tech battery winds the 450 over about 1 turn before the engine fires up. (proper jetting has a big effect here).My personal recommendation is the if you cold starrt your bike with the kicker everytime, like I do, then the 2.5 ah is OK. If your bike doesn't come with the kicker and only has the e-start, I feel it would be best to go with the next size up. E-mail Joe and he will recommend the correct battery for your application. I am totally happy with this battery, it is sitting in the garage imn the bike right now at a level 13.42 volts, a little better than when I got it in the mail. Thanks Joe. :crazy: WR Dave

  • Demo_Slug

Posted June 02, 2009 - 11:57 PM

#37

dave,

when you use E-start. Do you generally do so from neutral or do leave the bike in gear and just pull in the clutch?

UPDATE-----OK, after some, finally, summer riding conditions, I can report on MY fndings on Joes batteries....



  • WR_Dave

Posted June 03, 2009 - 04:08 AM

#38

Once the bike is warmed up it doesn't seem to matter. Generally, however I am in neutral unless there is an issue on a hill on occasion. WR Dave

  • NMNORGE

Posted June 03, 2009 - 03:45 PM

#39

Once the bike is warmed up it doesn't seem to matter. Generally, however I am in neutral unless there is an issue on a hill on occasion. WR Dave


This is a great battery. I have had zero issues with the turner batt. Hot or cold it cranks!:crazy:

  • Tile Guy

Posted June 03, 2009 - 05:57 PM

#40

I've had my 08 wr450 for a year now my bike and my battery seems to be dead,it will kick start but no e-start any suggestions. thanks




 
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