can you run diesel in a 98 400f?


33 replies to this topic
  • yz400fsmasher

Posted February 02, 2009 - 10:18 AM

#1

sum dude told me that because it is a high compression engine it was possible but i called him a dumb ass because as far as i know about diesel is it has to be injected at tdc. any info?

  • Johnny_On_The_Spot

Posted February 02, 2009 - 10:21 AM

#2

sum dude told me that because it is a high compression engine it was possible but i called him a dumb ass because as far as i know about diesel is it has to be injected at tdc. any info?


:) NO

  • grayracer513

Posted February 02, 2009 - 10:40 AM

#3

You cannot run diesel in any gasoline engine for several reasons, not the least of which is that diesel has an octane number of about 40-45, and the detonation would be spectacular, if it ignited. And that is the second major problem; poor ignitability on exposure to a spark. Then, there is the issue of a complete lack of ignition timing control, since the fuel is apt to self ignite from compression or heat. In diesel engines, this is handled by injecting the fuel at the time ignition is desired, but a gasoline engine has no such mechanisms in place.

In the Marine Corps, this kind of info is categorized officially as Bovine Scatology, or as the guys in the field simply say, BS.

  • yz400fsmasher

Posted February 02, 2009 - 11:32 AM

#4

what if there were some mods done to the engine like an injector pump and injector.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 02, 2009 - 11:53 AM

#5

You mean, what if you converted it to a diesel?

What do you think?

  • oldmanx

Posted February 02, 2009 - 12:35 PM

#6

What do you think?


What I think is, Bovine Scatology has now become a part of my vocabulary. This will probably be spread to the vocabulary of my co-workers.
Thanks, Grey!!

  • Clb33fyxj

Posted February 02, 2009 - 01:12 PM

#7

diesel engines run much higher compression than these bikes have, and that combined with very fine atomization is what allows for ignition without spark plugs. modern common rail engines are around 17:1 since they have injection pressure which are much higher than traditional fuel pumps, while the upper region of the scale would be around 25:1. the cylinder, head and pistons could not contain the pressure during combustion.

  • Clb33fyxj

Posted February 02, 2009 - 01:13 PM

#8

also injection usually takes place just before tdc to allow the flame front maximum burn time, producing a cleaner burn and maximum torque

  • grayracer513

Posted February 02, 2009 - 02:18 PM

#9

diesel engines run much higher compression than these bikes have, and that combined with very fine atomization is what allows for ignition without spark plugs. modern common rail engines are around 17:1 since they have injection pressure which are much higher than traditional fuel pumps, while the upper region of the scale would be around 25:1. the cylinder, head and pistons could not contain the pressure during combustion.

You don't really believe that the internal peak combustion pressures in a gas or diesel engine are anywhere near as low as the peak compression pressures, do you? Compression has nothing to do with the stress put on an engine run as a diesel. Diesel burns so much faster that peak combustion pressures are generally higher for a given power output (which generally occurs at about 30-40% of the RPM the same power is reached in a gas engine).

also injection usually takes place just before tdc to allow the flame front maximum burn time, producing a cleaner burn and maximum torque

All gas and diesel engines fire in advance of TDC while at speed. The difference is that diesels do not advance the ignition event as far as Gas engines do, and in fact, often fire after TDC at idle.

  • Wiz636

Posted February 02, 2009 - 03:11 PM

#10

You mean, what if you converted it to a diesel?

What do you think?


As soon as I read the question I could immediately visualize the response. :)

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • grayracer513

Posted February 02, 2009 - 04:11 PM

#11

As soon as I read the question I could immediately visualize the response. :lol:

Some days it's tougher than others. :)

  • RENNER

Posted February 02, 2009 - 10:10 PM

#12

sum dude told me that because it is a high compression engine it was possible but i called him a dumb ass because as far as i know about diesel is it has to be injected at tdc. any info?


wut kind of redneck hillbilly told you that? he prob mixes diesel with his cheerios

  • tnl

Posted February 03, 2009 - 02:54 PM

#13

Bovine Scatology, or as the guys in the field simply say, BS.



Sniglets* Words that don't appear in the dictionary, but should :)

  • cowboyona426

Posted February 04, 2009 - 09:17 AM

#14

All I can say is.. wow.

  • DrThumper

Posted February 04, 2009 - 10:19 AM

#15

Make a gas engine run on diesel...?...Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Theres so many differences, I don't know where to start!
Gas compression ratios are like 9:1 to 12:1, diesel is something like 30:1.
Diesels have no spark plugs, no ignition, totally different valve timing. Etc, etc.
Tell the (doofus redneck) guy to do it to his own bike first...

  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2009 - 12:28 PM

#16

Gas compression ratios are like 9:1 to 12:1, diesel is something like 30:1.

Typical diesel compression ratios run from around 15:1 up to about 20-22:1. It's extremely rare that they go higher than that.

Where will it end? :)

  • jayh300

Posted February 04, 2009 - 12:34 PM

#17

Typical diesel compression ratios run from around 15:1 up to about 20-22:1. It's extremely rare that they go higher than that.

Where will it end? :)


when you smack the lock on it.....

  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2009 - 12:41 PM

#18

when you smack the lock on it.....


Coming soon. This has about outlived the limited usefulness that it started out with. Entertaining in a bizarrely twisted way, though.

  • jayh300

Posted February 04, 2009 - 12:50 PM

#19

Coming soon. This has about outlived the limited usefulness that it started out with. Entertaining in a bizarrely twisted way, though.


true... it has had me dreaming of a 1 cyl duramax style injector nozzle/pump assy that could be run off the timing chain and an exhaust particulate filter/silencer that could produce 450 degrees of exhaust to roast you buddies number plates off......

sorry.... back to regular schedule programming

  • Wiz636

Posted February 04, 2009 - 01:10 PM

#20

So, just for the sake of knowing...at what temperature will diesel ignite, and what's the minimum compression ratio would it take to get the air that hot? Let's assume seal level and 70 degrees F.





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