04 YZF450... approx 40hrs.. good cond. need help findnig approx value.


22 replies to this topic
  • Avengeance

Posted January 22, 2009 - 08:55 PM

#1

Hey guys.. I normally hang out in the 250F forum, currently own a 04 250F that is immaculate.

A coworker of mine is selling a 04 450F which has annodized Excells, ASVs, Works Connect frame shields, FMF pipe, etc..... has a handfull of mods. He stressed that it is not raced... not beaten on.. and I do believe him. He says its in excellent condition but states that it has 40hrs on it and has already had a valve adjustment.

The guy is getting rid of it because it has collected dust since he bought it 2 years ago.

If this thing is indeed in excellent shape... what would it be worth?

Thanks for any advice.... :banana:

  • writebrian

Posted January 22, 2009 - 09:55 PM

#2

Ignore the add ons. He did that for him not for you so you shouldnt pay more for em'. Pay for the year, hours and condition of the bike only.

I can get that bike for $2000-$2400 all day long here in AZ. You will LOVE going up to the 450 and the power is very manageable. Don't be scared of the change at all.

  • Flosi77

Posted January 23, 2009 - 09:30 AM

#3

Seeing you are from california i can relate. i bought a 04 from a co worker as well about a year and a half ago. Guy said it had 15 hours it looked brand new. He crashed hurt his back and it sat for 2 years beofre selling it to me. i grabbed it for $2200. So i'd say around 2k

  • Avengeance

Posted January 23, 2009 - 08:12 PM

#4

Thanks guys... he brought some pics to work today, it looks nice... real nice.

Im going to go take a look at it on Sunday. The only thing he mentioned is it has not been registered since he's owned it. That shouldnt cost too much I dont think.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 23, 2009 - 09:16 PM

#5

The only thing he mentioned is it has not been registered since he's owned it. That shouldnt cost too much I dont think.

Better check with the DMV. I'd get an estimate and get him to drop the price by that amount.

  • dougEfresh223

Posted January 23, 2009 - 09:59 PM

#6

I had an 03yz450f and it too was never raced. Shortly after owning it, the connecting rod went. Those motors have oiling issues and the crank often seizes. I would stay clear of a bike 5 years old that doesnt have a rebuild or the oil update kit unless it was IMMACULATE. The yfz450 had the same problem. I think it is pretty well publicized on this site. I think you may be able to pick up a bike similiar to that year that HAS a rebuild.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 24, 2009 - 09:34 AM

#7

I had an '03 that had around 400 hours on it, and not one mechanical issue of any kind. Not even a valve adjustment.

The '03 crank does have a lighter rod bearing in it, and some of them did break the bearing cage and lock the crank, but saying that they did that "often" is fundamentally inaccurate.

I'm also unaware of an oiling update kit for the engine. Enlighten me.

  • Flosi77

Posted January 24, 2009 - 09:42 AM

#8

Thanks guys... he brought some pics to work today, it looks nice... real nice.

Im going to go take a look at it on Sunday. The only thing he mentioned is it has not been registered since he's owned it. That shouldnt cost too much I dont think.


The dmv will be like 200 a believe... shouldnt be above 250 for sure...

you might be able to get away with it seeing its changing owners but who knows the dmv loves to stick it to people:banghead:

  • dougEfresh223

Posted January 24, 2009 - 10:51 AM

#9

I would be glad to share my experiences with that motor. I had an 04, 05 yfz450 each had the connecting rod go. I also had an 03yz450f that had a connecting rod go. I started to look into this....seemed too common to be a coincidence. From what I understand, the connecting rod journal wasnt drilled all the way through and there is only one hole drilled so there is less oil to lubricate the connecting rod. To combat this, there is an oil up date you can do by drilling the case on the filter side. There are companies by me in San Diego that do it. Now that you have increased the oil flow, I think they have you buy a bigger oil pump...I think. I am somewhat unclear about all this becaus I just bought the side case cover from an 07 or 08 and replaced the crank and this is supposed to fix the problem. I wish I could provide you with all the details, I used to know them. This was posted on YFZcentral....There were some pics but I couldnt get them to copy over.

Sep 27 2004, 05:54 PM
Post #1


YFZ450 Racer

Group: Members
Posts: 191
Joined: 17-June 03
From: GA
Member No.: 86



As we all know there has been a lot of talk about crank shafts on the YFZ blowing up and the cause being debatable between a design/manufacturing flaw or "just the way it is".

Well, I can't answer the question for everyone's crank shaft, but after you look at these pictures and explanations of what happened to mine, I'll let you be the judge of what happened to everyone else's.

I decided to rebuild my own crank shaft instead of buying a new one and when I pressed the crank apart this is what I found;

Notice what's left of the bearings.

This is why the lower bearing failed;

This is the clutch side of the crankshaft, and as you can see it's hollow. When the engine is put together the crankshaft end fits into a passage in the side case cover and has oil pumped through it. It travels down the crankshaft and (it's hard to see in the picture), there is a hole drilled into the web where the pin fits.

Now, when the crank is pressed together, the hole, previously mentioned, lines up with this hole that is drilled into the journal.

The oil travels through the journal and out this hole, (see top of picture), which lubricates the lower bearing, then the oil drops down into the crankcase and gets recirculated.

Here lies the problem. Yamaha failed to drill the two holes in the journal all the way through, thus preventing the oil from reaching the lower bearing.

This is what happens, to said bearing, when it goes without lubrication for a full year.

Yamaha may already be aware of this and has corrected it, BUT who knows how many units it involved before or if they have caught it. (Mine was the 96th one made).

My wife is in the process of dealing with Yamaha to see what they intend to do about it, and if they refuse to stand behind their product, we're going to get legal.

For any other YFZ owner's who have had crankshaft problems, please contact me via PM or email, as I will need to speak with you. We will deal with Yamaha on your behalf.

For the YFZ owner's who haven't had problems, let's hope that they caught "the flaw" before your's was made.



What do you think?

  • grayracer513

Posted January 24, 2009 - 04:23 PM

#10

Doug,

The first 2 years of YFZ's had a shorter stroke than the motorcycle engine (they were 439cc, rather than 449), so there is no commonality in the two crankshafts, although they do use the same crankpin. However, the YFZ was also not even introduced until '04, and there have been nearly no incidences of '04 and later YZ450's seizing cranks.

Additionally, the oiling change made to the '06 to add that spray hole was to cool the piston crown and add lube at the wrist pin, not the big end. The info you presented here simply doesn't apply to the '03 YZ450.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • 426 NOOB

Posted January 24, 2009 - 06:31 PM

#11

Doug,

The first 2 years of YFZ's had a shorter stroke than the motorcycle engine (they were 439cc, rather than 449), so there is no commonality in the two crankshafts, although they do use the same crankpin. However, the YFZ was also not even introduced until '04, and there have been nearly no incidences of '04 and later YZ450's seizing cranks.

Additionally, the oiling change made to the '06 to add that spray hole was to cool the piston crown and add lube at the wrist pin, not the big end. The info you presented here simply doesn't apply to the '03 YZ450.


hahaha, gray love a good battle of the whits.

  • dougEfresh223

Posted January 26, 2009 - 02:29 PM

#12

I see what you are saying and I am certainly not claiming to be an expert on the topic. All I know is my experiences and what I have learned speaking to people AFTER I had 3 cranks go. The mod may cool the piston crown but most certainly provide increased lubrication to crank bearing. If they update the side case, there must have been a reason and I am assuming it was the crank issue. I actually called Yamaha and they spoke of the issue. They wanted to know my VIN number and talked of remunerating me for the money I spent to rebuild the motor. They said they "may" be able to help me....I never really got anywhere. I know that stroke may have changed between the 2 motors but I would bet the cranks are still the same. They change stroke with the con rod right. From what I understood....every 450 had the issue until 07....

Here is the kit:

New from J&T Products- A permanent and professional bolt-on solution to the flawed oil design plaguing '04, '05, & '06 YFZ450 owners. As many have (suddenly and expensively) discovered, Yamaha used a poor and ineffective 'splash design' system for lubricating the wrist pin and piston rod bearing on their YFZ450 ATVs (model years '04-'06). Yamaha has since addressed this issue on their '07 models by utilizing a high velocity oil pump and an oil nozzle dedicated to lubricating these critical areas. J&T Products has developed a do-it-yourself bolt-on kit to upgrade your YFZ oiling system to perfectly match the '07 YFZ oiling system. You simply send your clutch case cover to J&T Products where it will be professionally machine-modified, retrofitted with the ’07 Yamaha oil nozzle, and quickly returned to you with the high velocity oil pump, new case gasket, and new circlip. Upon purchase, J&T Products will immediately make available to you comprehensive, color illustrated, step by step instructions to perform all mechanical work. The procedure can be performed with minimal mechanical skill and basic tools. All work performed by J&T Products will be done by a certified Yamaha factory trained technician and experienced professional machinist. J&T Products uses only genuine Yamaha parts where applicable. All workmanship guaranteed.

Here is a link about the issue on all things moto:

http://www.allthings...eed-pics-20550/

it sites the 03yz450 as having the problem. Thats the bike I have.

Here is an article about it:

Project WideOpen UpdateYFZ450 Falicon Supercrank, JE Piston, and Rossier Head porting
Publish date: Dec 1, 2004
By: Dean Waters
Source: ATV at Off-Road.com


This month we wanted to provide an update on Project WideOpen. Progress has been slower than expected due to an unexpected problem. We have a number of parts waiting for testing before we can proceed further.

So what was the unexpected problem? We had a rod bearing go out on the motor. This is on the crankshaft side. Since discovering the problem we have talked to numerous engine builders who have not seen this particular problem in the YFZ450 motor. So with our motor suddenly apart sitting on the bench we decided to proceed with some engine mods that were orignally going to happen in a later phase of the project.

We needed a new crankshaft due to the bearing failure so we have decided to go with a new Falicon 450 Supercrank. Falicon takes a new Yamaha crank, adds their new Knife Rod and race prep's the crank, just like they do for the factory teams. This crank has a slightly longer stroke and smaller wristpin size, which increases the engine size from 440cc to 450cc. The combination also allows you to select from a wide range of racing pistons designed for the YZ-450F motocross bike. The Yamaha OEM crankshaft is blueprinted to the best combination of oil clearance and precise tolerance. The crank throws are contoured and polished to a mirror finish, improving oil flow and reducing crankcase turbulence. Wait until you see pictures of this crank. it is a beuty....

For a piston we contact JE Piston. We wanted a MX bike piston but we didn't want the 13.5:1 domed piston. We wanted a little lower compression and a flat top piston. Pin oilers are standard from JE which was also one of our requirements. Some engine builders have seen some oiling problems in the YFZ450 motor when using pistons without pin oilers. Since we wanted a flat top piston this would be a custom order which is no problem for JE Piston although it does require a minimum order of 4. You will want a spare anyhow and your engine builder will probaly want some also. Our pistons are on order and should be arriving shortly.

Since everything was apart we also decided a little head porting was also in order. We sent our head off to the experts at Rossier Engineering. Joe has been working closely with the YFZ450 motor since it came off the showroom floor. We have been VERY happy with the Rossier Engineering Race pipe that we have been running on Project WideOpen so we knew he could match it it up well. Joe has done extensive flow and dyno testing to produce the optimum amount of power throughout the midrange and top end. RE's dyno testing has shown a 1.5 HP gain and flow tests every head to make sure it matches their specs.
:lol:




So far...all of my failures have been on the crank side.:banana:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 26, 2009 - 03:22 PM

#13

Here is the kit:

New from J&T Products- A permanent and professional bolt-on solution to the flawed oil design plaguing '04, '05, & '06 YFZ450 owners. As many have (suddenly and expensively) discovered, [COLOR="Blue"]Yamaha used a poor and ineffective 'splash design' system for lubricating the wrist pin and piston rod bearing[/COLOR] on their YFZ450 ATVs (model years '04-'06). ....

Here is an article about it:

Project WideOpen UpdateYFZ450 Falicon Supercrank, JE Piston, and Rossier Head porting
Publish date: Dec 1, 2004
By: Dean Waters
Source: ATV at Off-Road.com


...So what was the unexpected problem? We had a rod bearing go out on the motor. This is on the crankshaft side. Since discovering the problem we have talked to numerous engine builders who have not seen this particular problem in the YFZ450 motor. So with our motor suddenly apart sitting on the bench we decided to proceed with some engine mods that were orignally going to happen in a later phase of the project.

So far...all of my failures have been on the crank side.:banana:


There are a couple of points to be made here. First, you are STILL addressing an issue that applies to YFZ quad engines and not YZ450's of any year. Note the number of times that distinction appears in bold.

Notwithstanding anything posted at ATM or elsewhere, the 2003 model YZ450 had occasional rod bearing problems related to the original rod bearing (93310-63412-00) breaking cages, as I said already. This was corrected by using a larger bearing (93310-63417-00) and a rod with a larger bearing pocket, the 5XD-11651-00-00 vs the original 5TA-11651-00-00.

Next, the quoted text in bold blue is categorically incorrect. No YZF, WRF, or YFZ engine has ever had a splash lubed connecting rod bearing at any time. Ever. The rod is pressure fed through a passage coming directly from the oil filter, through the right case cover to a seal at the crankshaft right axle, where it enters a passage drilled into the axle. This intersects a passage in the right counterweight that terminates at the crankpin bore, where it feeds oil directly to the bearing through passages in the pin itself. The same crankpin was used on all of these engines from the '03 motorcycles through the '05 bikes and quads, and virtually none of the '04 '05 motorcycles had any sort of problems with cranks of any kind, or with wrist pins, for that matter. Yamaha's statement on why the nozzle was added was to cool the piston crown, as Porsche does, not to address an oiling problem. No oiling problem existed.

Next, no oiling nozzle appears in the parts books for a YFZ up to and including the '08 model, as it does with the '06 and later YZ450, so again, we see some shakey info.

Your statement that your failures are on the "crank side" make me wonder if you are even talking about rod bearings. Do you mean the crank end of the rod, as opposed to the piston end? Or are you talking about main bearings? If you are having rod bearing problems with an '03, rebuild the crank with an '04-'05 rod and bearing and that will stop.

The main bearings ARE splash/drainage oiled in these engines, and I've always thought it would be a simple matter to bore a very small hole (say .015") in the pugs in the crank pin to help oil them, the main bearings almost never fail as it is, so it's no big deal.

  • dougEfresh223

Posted January 26, 2009 - 04:21 PM

#14

Its very apparent that you know what you are talking about...That was certainly never a bone of contention. I noticed someone refered to this thread as a battle of whits but really, I am not trying to battle with anyone. I am just trying to pass on my experiences. I had an 03yz450f that blew a connecting rod bearing, and a 04 yfz450 and a 05 yfz450 that also blew con rod bearings. When I asked about it I was told that the main jouranl wasnt drilled all the way through thus causing oiling issues. I was told that their was a case mod that you could do to fix the problem or you could buy the 07 side case cover. From what I uderstand, the oiling update squirts oil in the needed areas. If I am not right....then I am not right. This was just what I understood. :banana: That being said, I am not certain why they would offer an oil update kit to addresses this problem if it isnt a "real" problem. Oh yeah, its duncan racing that does the oil mod. Are you saying that the oil mod addresses a different issue altogether?

  • grayracer513

Posted January 26, 2009 - 05:29 PM

#15

I noticed someone refered to this thread as a battle of whits but really, I am not trying to battle with anyone.

I can't be responsible for the behavior of the spectators. :banana:

The '03 YZ450 did have an issue of sorts, and while they weren't really plagued by rod bearing failures, they aren't unheard of, either, so I can understand that it failed. And, it is true that the quad engine uses a different bearing and rod than any of the motorcycle engines, past or present.

It is also true that the '07 YFZ oil pump was upgraded (from the 5TA-13300-00-00 used in the '03-'05 bikes and '04-'06 quads to the current 5D3-13300-00-00). That may be a high volume (not velocity) pump, and should fit any of the earlier YZ/WR/YZF engines, but check into that before using one.

Oh yeah, its duncan racing that does the oil mod. Are you saying that the oil mod addresses a different issue altogether?

I don't know what Donovan's intent with the mod was, but when Yamaha did it to the motorcycle engine, their stated reason was piston crown cooling, even though they were apparently the only ones who thought there was a need for that.

  • FinchFan194

Posted January 26, 2009 - 07:39 PM

#16

HOLY CRAP Gray! You got some serious YZ450 knowledge.

  • Smokeslider

Posted January 26, 2009 - 08:09 PM

#17

^^^^^ Welcome to the YZ450F forum.... Gray has got you covered

  • dougEfresh223

Posted January 26, 2009 - 09:51 PM

#18

Since I have given you something interesting to respond to....maybe you can impart some of you wisdom on me. I am trying to drive 2 non plated dirtbikes from plaster city to palm springs.....Can it be done? Thanks again for the info on the 450..

  • grayracer513

Posted January 26, 2009 - 10:24 PM

#19

I doubt it. The problem would be in getting from the northern edge of Truckhaven to PS through the mountains. It seems to me that there is a lot of private and Indian land in the way. Or did you plan to ride them on the road? :banana:

  • dougEfresh223

Posted January 27, 2009 - 05:15 PM

#20

I would love to ride them on the road but they arent plated. I am trying set up a nice 100 mile ride for my girlfriend and I that ends up at a hotel or nice place to stay. I would head down to mexico but I dont really fell comfortable bringing her down there right yet, not just the 2 of us. I live in el cajon and we were going to leave from plaster city and head up to palm springs, stay the night in a nice place, get some massages a stuff the next day, and then ride back. Do you know where we can go? I cant seem to find many good trail maps either.....

Thanks for you help, greatly appreciated.





Related Content

Forums
Photo
Motocross

Thinking about Yamaha 250... by Arctic Pride


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  491 replies
Forums
Photo

YZ450F 03 Sparks driving me crazy by SirAttard


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • 5 replies
Forums
Photo

yz250x vs 450 4t comparisons (preferably desert riding) needed by JakeNorthrupYZ450F


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   Yamaha 2-Stroke
  • 9 replies
Forums
Photo

100 hrs on 2014 yz450f, shim valves or replace them? by ttr230rider6


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • Hot  79 replies
Forums
Photo

Is it worth it? (Cam and High compression piston) by macgi77


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   CRF 150/230 F/L
  • Hot  36 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.