Cam journal scouring seized cam, what can I get away with?


26 replies to this topic
  • KJ790

Posted January 14, 2009 - 08:55 PM

#21

OK, HaHa!! This is the way I understand it. The Yamaha 2stroke uses a filter for the gearbox only. It is the same shape and size as the 4stroke filters used to oil the gearbox and the head.
Have a look at these pics. Both are Yamaha oil filters. The filter on the left is for a 4stroke Yamaha. The filter on the right is for a 2stroke Yamaha gearbox(gearbox only). If you put the filter on the right in certain Yamaha 4strokes it will absolutely, completely waste the top end!
Posted Image
Look real close to the filter in this pic. See those 4 small holes along with the 2 large holes? The 4 small holes are what oil the top end!
Posted Image

Now I've never owned a YZF and I have no idea what the newer filters look like so do your own research.


I'm still wondering what yamaha 2 stroke uses an oil filter like that. Is it a vintage one? I've had 9 yamaha 2 strokes since 1998 and none of them have had an oil filter. I'm not sure about the vintage ones though. The YZF's use a filter that looks like the one on the right, with a big hole in the middle. The oil filter cover has a prong that sticks in the hole to keep you from putting it in backwards.

  • Rman of 237

Posted January 14, 2009 - 10:00 PM

#22

I'm still wondering what yamaha 2 stroke uses an oil filter like that. Is it a vintage one? I've had 9 yamaha 2 strokes since 1998 and none of them have had an oil filter. I'm not sure about the vintage ones though. The YZF's use a filter that looks like the one on the right, with a big hole in the middle. The oil filter cover has a prong that sticks in the hole to keep you from putting it in backwards.

I'm not sure about the 2stroke/4stroke thing but that's what the mechanic suggested to me after he talked to the tech rep at Yamaha after the 2nd top end rebuild on my TW.
I'll tell you this much. When I took my new TW in for it's scheduled 500mi service back in '06 the mechanic grabbed a filter off the shelf marked for a "TW" and installed it. It was the wrong filter and it seized up my top end. I took it back to the shop and since it was still under warranty they replaced the head. In the process he grabbed another filter off the shelf labeled for a TW and guess what? Sure enough it was another wrong filter and again sure enough I got 20mi before it seized up again! The filter he installed twice was the filter shown on the right in the pic. Mind you it was packaged as a TW200 P/N among others(similar to the Honda XR where the same filter works for several different models). After consulting with the tech rep at Yamaha it became apparent that the rogue filter was for a gearbox application on "probably a 2stroke YZ or something". That's where I got the "YZ". Damned thing is is that this isn't an isolated incident. I'm not the only one this has happened to. The same thing has happened to other Yamaha owners including a guy in Australia!
Regardless, if you installed the filter pictured on the right of the pic on the wrong bike you will need a new top end!:thumbsup:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 15, 2009 - 07:27 AM

#23

The end of the filter you have shown here has nothing whatsoever to do with oiling anything at all in a YZF. The hole in the center is the bypass valve, and flows no oil unless the pressure difference between the inside and outside of the filter exceeds roughly 7-10 psi. Normal oil flow is from the outside of the element, through the filter media to the inside, and out the open hole on the opposite side from that which your pictures show. From there, it enters the filter cover, and is distributed to the lube system.

Scotts stainless mesh filters have neither the extra holes you point out, nor any base pad, and after using them for 5 years, I think I can safely state that the lack of these hole will not cause a problem of any kind.

Your information is patently false, and I'm calling BS on the entire thing unless you can provide a part number.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Rman of 237

Posted January 15, 2009 - 09:22 AM

#24

The end of the filter you have shown here has nothing whatsoever to do with oiling anything at all in a YZF. The hole in the center is the bypass valve, and flows no oil unless the pressure difference between the inside and outside of the filter exceeds roughly 7-10 psi. Normal oil flow is from the outside of the element, through the filter media to the inside, and out the open hole on the opposite side from that which your pictures show. From there, it enters the filter cover, and is distributed to the lube system.

Scotts stainless mesh filters have neither the extra holes you point out, nor any base pad, and after using them for 5 years, I think I can safely state that the lack of these hole will not cause a problem of any kind.

Your information is patently false, and I'm calling BS on the entire thing unless you can provide a part number.

Well fine grayracer!! Whatever!! All I'm saying is that the wrong filter seized up the top end of my TW twice. That's no BS!! If I posted any false info I didn't do it intentionally! I'm only conveying what the tech rep told mechanic was the reason and that was the reason, plain and simple. I realize were talking about 2 different bikes here but I thought I'd mention the filter snafu for whatever it's worth.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 15, 2009 - 11:00 AM

#25

...the wrong filter seized up the top end of my TW twice.

Now that we finally have that the filter problem occurred in a TW200, and not a YZF, I see what happened. Here are the actual facts of the matter.

The TW uses a 5H0-13440-09-00 oil filter, the one on the left in your picture. The one on the right is a 5TA-13440-00-00, or a 5D3-13440-00-00, which replaced it, either of which is the correct filter for a YZF of any size or year model.

The TW routes oil from the interior of the filter through the two small holes, between the inner and outer ring of the base pad/seal and up to the top end. The YZF does not, routing as I described earlier. If a YZF filter were to be used in a TW, it would in fact result in top end starvation. Conversely, using a TW filter in a YZF would allow unfiltered oil to flow from outside the filter through the two holes to the inside, and into the oiling system, bypassing the filter media.

It's always important to get the right parts for the engine, but the filter mix-up issue has little if any chance of being behind the seizure of the cams in a YZ450, and so has no bearing on this problem. The only way it could have caused it is to have let a bunch of grit flow up to the top. That, and as far as anyone can tell me, no Yamaha two stroke (or any other that I'm aware of) has ever had an oil filter.

Interesting bit of trivia, I suppose.

  • Rman of 237

Posted January 15, 2009 - 11:55 AM

#26

Sorry for the confusion, it just seemed logical to mention the headache the wrong filter caused me.:p I guess when the mechanic mentioned the "YZ filter" I just assumed he was talking about a 2stroke and again assumed he was talking about some obscure gearbox filter or whatever.:thumbsup:

  • Brett1981

Posted January 15, 2009 - 02:56 PM

#27

Hey, what about my cam seizure, head f$%^@# up problem :-)
Nah its all good, I know it wasn't the filter's problem, going to repair the bike and swap it for a 2-stroke.
Tip for all 4-stroke fans - 'don't buy an older, used a lot, not looked after four stroke!' no matter how cheap. Seemed like a bargain to me but now I am paying the price! I am good at learning things the hard way





Related Content

Forums
Photo

Michigan Motocross Tires by 288yz450


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   North
  • 1 reply
Forums
Photo

James Stewart back on a YZ450F by YamaLink


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  47 replies
Forums
Photo

yz250x vs 450 4t comparisons (preferably desert riding) needed by JakeNorthrupYZ450F


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   Yamaha 2-Stroke
  • 9 replies
Forums
Photo
Motocross

Thinking about Yamaha 250... by Arctic Pride


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  491 replies
Forums
Photo

Snake pit oct 30th by The Anvil


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   California
  • Hot  293 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.