this is something that i feel strongly about. Good article. kinda long

[yamaha.dude]

I have been watching this thread for a while now, both as a moderator and a "real person" LOL

As a real person I would just like to say that we have a similar situation here in Australia - firstly, that our founding father came and took the land from the original inhabitants,

secondly, that we are an easy mark for people who want a better way of life, or who want to bludge off of the system - free healthcare, unemployment benefits etc -

Thirdly, we have gone out of our way to (and too far, IMHO) to accomodate the recent immigrants - we spend millions on language programs, but they all still talk in their native tongues, you can get a free translator at any government agency - nice for the expensive translators to have lots of work - and yet we still see Serbians and croation fighting each other at soccer matches because they just can't forget their old world" differences, and they bring it here to Australia - sure seems like they are not making much effort to be "Good Australians"

Same for the Asian community - the triads and herion problems were never as bad until we suddenly became "a part of Asia" in our foreign policy outlook 20 years ago...

Sometimes I wish I was a Chinese lesbian with black skin with 7 kids and a inoperable back condition. I would be on easy street! Fact is I am a single white male, bringing up 3 kids alone - I am adrift in my own country - lucky I have a work ethic and some "get up and go" of my own, because I would be last on the list for free housing, special treatment, job training schemes etc...

One thing we do have in our favour is that it is harder to get across our borders - the sharks do bite! - but for years we used to let people just sail in, or even fly in and just stay, but it is getting harder to come here and be allowed to stay... until the next change of Government anyway...

Rant Mode off... ?

David

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: yamaha.dude ]

[John_Lorenz]

I truly believ this that this is "a part of the global economy and European Union Merg from a few years back". This is a Global issue, based soley at the feet of the communist and socialist agenda's. Look real close at the new European Union, All socialist or Communist.

What has this got to do with Bikes, riding and Thumper Talk

I dont know but I would think that if the current trend continues that we would loose the freedom to discuss such things on TT or any other forum.

Im done no more I will just watch.

I think

Maybe Ok Ok I will probably post something if someone irratates me enough with Liberal Goo-Goo

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: E.G.O.**** ]

[Scott_in_San_Diego]

Wow! Some very interesting comments today. I guess that the only thing that we all agree upon is our enjoyment of off-road riding and our awesome WR's.

Here's my opinion in the Cliff Notes version:

* The medical system in the USA has failed many Americans. It's way too expensive and medical costs are only projected to increase in the future. Although not a perfect system, I think that we should take a closer look at Western Europe and how their medical system works. Yes, there are longer lines to access care and schedule an appointment for surgery, however everybody has health coverage at minimal costs.

I guess the question is whether or not we are willing to pay more taxes for a socialized medical system.

* The Immigration issue seems to be one of a "love" and "hate" relationship. Personally, at this point and time in American history I don't think that we can't absorb any more "Economic Refugees." However, at the same time I'm not saying that we should build a Berlin wall between San Diego and Tijuana and shoot at all of those trying to enter the US.

* In regards to the question of religion, I really don't have much to say about this topic since I'm a non-believer.

Anyway, back to the normal topic.....I can't wait to go riding this weekend. I love my WR!

[Team_Oatmeal_Pie]

There is a diffence between a citizen and a non-citizen, we live here they dont, We pay taxes, they dont etc.

Besides what about those damn fat people, taking up all the room around here, lets get them too.

Eat the obese!!!! Or export them to starving peoples as food.

[John_Lorenz]

Team Oatmeal,

The we should send Ugly People and not let them back in ?

Ok this is getting out of hand I admit.

But Ugly fat people and red headed Three breasted Hary Krishana;s shoudl be deported

[lewichris]

pathetic

[John_Lorenz]

Lew You Started it

[Pete_Z]

E.G.O. , what "Canuck attitude" are you talking about? Personally I feel that most Canadians lack any sort of attitude at all! That is one of the biggest problems with my country, no patriotism. Admittedly it is difficult to maintain a national identity when most of our pop culture is U.S. based and we are so similiar as a people. I can't imagine that you would disagree with me in saying that there's nothing wrong with me being a Proud Canadian.I just wish that more Canadians felt the same way.

I don't want to get into a universal heath care discussion, but I've got to say a couple of things because I know that it has been a topic of much debate in the U.S. for quite some time now. I was born in Canada in and have been in the universal health care system since day #1. I have never had a problem receiving care, or with the quality of service. Doctors up here are not starving - they drive 'Benzes and Beemers, have big a$$ houses on the lake, and off-shore powerboats at the dock. My sister-in-law is an RN, and she makes a good wage. Universal heath care was not jammed down our throats by a communist regime, we wanted it, and recent attempts by the government to dismantle it have been met with severe opposition. Personally I think that the system works, although it is not perfect. Maybe the answer lies in a two-tiered system, I don't know. One point to ponder - if it's such a bad idea, why were American citizens coming up here and using our system?

As far as mid-east terrror, I think that we both have border control problems, but ours is by far worse. It is a fact that terrorists have entered (and tried to enter) the U.S. after entering Canada first as "refugees" then disappearing. Thanks to our f---ing Liberal government's immigration policies,systematic destruction of the military,and head in the sand attitude. Hey -when you're right, you're right and as a Canadian I am ashamed.

Peace - P.Z.

[John_Lorenz]

Pete Z

You Wrote

.

E.G.O. , what "Canuck attitude" are you talking about? Personally I feel that most Canadians lack any sort of attitude at all! That is one of the biggest problems with my country, no patriotism

Your not for the French Side are you ? , So that is the Arrogant side I refer to.

Sorry no insult implied, and sorry if I made you feel that way.

But one thing I do not understand is what do you refer to as

You Wrote

One point to ponder - if it's such a bad idea, why were American citizens coming up here and using our system?

What ? how do you know that "Alledged" US citizens are comeing there. Can you show the proof? I am not doubting you I just doubt there real American Citizens, if they are they are most likly leaching the system. SO I concider that a travisty in itself.

Any Hoot

Sorry Eh!

[Scott_in_San_Diego]

Pete Z,

I agree with your comments that many Americans are going to Canada to purchase medicine. I live in San Diego and ride in Baja (Mexico). Everytime I drive through Tijuana on my way to the desert I see American's standing in line at the Mexican pharmacies. How do I know that they are Americans? It's easy......they are dressed like people from Iowa vacationing at the beach in San Diego. You know...silly hats, bright clothing that doesn't match, black socks with tennis shoes, etc.

The number of pharmacies in Tijuana has grown significantly within the last five years because the US medical system doesn't work.

I would gladly try the Canadian or Western European medical systems, they have gotta be better than what we have now.

-Scott

[John_Lorenz]

Scott

Your comment is correct, plus I believe the observation is incorrect as to why Americans, Canadians and many other nationals flock to Mexio for meds.

Its unregulated

Here is my sumation and experince. My Mom passed in 99 from pancreatic cancer. meds that could have been given to her to help with pain as well as ppossibly prolong her life were not and still not avail in the US, Thanks FDA, but they are available in Mexico, Canada and Europe.

If my Mom or I were to go and pick this stuff up we would have been arrested crossing the border

(Humm Makes Sense).

Here is were I agree with Pete and Scott. Most of the Americans that you see are seeking treatment / meds that are not available in the US

Thansk agan FDA. Steve McQueen is a prime example, and he had plenty of moola, so economic status is not a qualifier here.

Another reason you see Americans and others in Mexico getting meds is addictions. You can easly pick up Vicodin, Oxy-Contin and morphine in Mexico.

So are all those getting meds outside the US lagit

not on your life.

Is it a travisty that those that need Cancer Drugs, therapy or whatever have to go outside the country and risk being arrested on there return

Thats BULL

Hey SO I guess we who would seek New Meds would be concidered Illegle Aliaens (humm)

New Life

New Meds

New Life

New Meds

Is it diff if Im American ?

[Pete_Z]

E.G.O. - No I don't even speak French. There are lots of French Canadians (some of them on this site)that are awesome people to meet, ride and party with. Unfortunately there are others that are a royal pain in the a$$. They want to break up Canada and generally have nothing but contempt for any Anglophones, I guess that includes Americans. Sorry about that - we should've sorted that bunch of traitors out a long time ago. Yet another major gaffe and waste of money by our perpetually impotent federal government.

Sorry - I can't find any info to point you to on the last time they exposed all the health care fraud that was going on, you'll just have to take my word on it.I think a lot of it was real American citizens (born in the USA) with family in Canada.This probably still goes on, it just goes to show you how easy it is to milk the system up here. I even recall reading about some guy that got a health card for his dog just to prove how easy it was to cheat.

BTW - no offence taken whatsoever.

Peace Eh - Pete Z.

[lewichris]

you are right i did start this. But i started it as a good topic refering to people coming to our country for a better life then complaining about it when they get here. not about pharmacies not about cannuk attitudes. this is getting pretty ridicules. I cant believe it has 52 posts.

ego do you believe that you have 15 of those posts. you and BF Lee

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: lewichris ]

[John_Lorenz]

Now its 16 ?

[John_H]

didn't read all the posts so don't know if this was already discussed.

Recent quote from Dennis Miller regarding the judges who declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional:

"So, Your Honor, the Pledge is unconstitutional because it says 'Under God'. Guess that means when you were sworn in with your hand on a Bible, and at the end of your oath repeated, 'So Help Me God' that makes your job unconstitutional! Therefore you have no job, which means your ruling doesn't mean s**t."

[John_Lorenz]

That is soo so o funny and true

Oh Now its 17 posts lew ?

[YAMAKAZE]

Damn.... This thread took a turn way off course......Wake me when we reach the Virgin Islands....

Bonzai ? zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Dan_from_HB]

I am not paranoid, don't subscribe much to conspiracy theories, and my grandparents were all immigrants.

That said, here are the facts, whether you choose to believe them or not:

This country was NOT founded on principles of atheism, uncontrolled immigration, minority rule, rights of non-citizens, or any language but English.

It WAS founded on a belief that all CITIZENS should be able to worship God in their own way, or not at all if they wish. It was founded on a sovereign federation of states with unprecedented individual rights and freedoms(protections from what our founders felt could easily become a tyrannical government). It was founded on the belief that each individual had basic rights that the government could not revoke under any circumstances (because they came from God). It was most definitely founded on a priniciple of majority rule, not that of a monarch or elite ruling class (or any minority class).

Guess where our founders got these principles? Judeo-Christian ethics. If you don't understand that the underpinnings of our entire society are religious in nature, then you have ignored history. But the greatness of this nation is/was that we never vary from these principles of basic human rights that protect us all, whether you believe they came from God or not.

Have you ever read the US Constitution? The Declaration of Independence? How about the Federalist Papers? Anything written by Jefferson, Madison, Jay, Adams, Washington, Hamilton, Franklin, Henry, Hancock? I highly recommend it. That will tell you where these gents were coming from, and what they intended for you and me.

Dan

[vtfootball79]

HERE'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS WILL LIKE!

on 9/11 in a town down the street from me there is a packy called hindu farms.

as u can assume people from the mid east work there. well on that day a man walked in the store and the cashier had the news on. it was after the crash, as people were jumpping out the windows. the report that people were now jumping came over the news promt and the man began to laugh. at that time the customer in front of the counter ( a white christian dude) grabbed him by the neck and punched him in the nose, and broke it. just so you know, some of us out there do still care and are willing to fight, i myself am one of them. as i'm sure so are all of you.

[CHris_PArks]

ya, i have heard a few stories like that about 911. lots of store where Jawas( arabs as you know them). where smiling and laughing at what was happining. know i know that not all arab americans are like this but there is a scary fact that some are. if you want a group to worry about in the USA, the illegal arabs would be it. some of them are not trying to make a living, but save money to carry about a mission of killing americans. others are just fags who milk us for money but love the crappy sandy country. By the way, have you guyss seen some of the dunes they have over there. all i can think about when seeing them on tv is my wr400 and a paddle, plus they have no greenys shutting there land down.