WR450 or VOR450EN

82 replies to this topic
  • Alabama_Rider

Posted January 28, 2003 - 05:37 PM


hey mole, you are in industrial sales. Can you answer these?
What is a VFD? How does it work? What is a MCC? What is a PLC? What is PID? or I have a simple one for you. What are the products of combustion? Why did Yamaha ship the WR450 with lean settings?

  • slomo138

Posted January 28, 2003 - 06:25 PM


As far as failure rate I went to a gncc race in Pa.Walking around the pits saw 2 Vors sitting by a trailer.Nice looking bikes,some high quality looking parts,beautiful machine work.I had to check them out.During the race saw I one sitting back at the trailer ,would not run.50% failure rate!
With any high performance machine there machines there are bound to be some problems and more so with completely
new models.All the bikes are so good now you just have to pick one Yamaha,Vor,Ktm exc. and deal with the little problems each one has.

  • tk421

Posted January 28, 2003 - 07:31 PM


VFD – variable frequency drive (1333, 160, 1305, etc)
MCC – Motor Control Center (A room for 3 phase motor starters, freq drives, PLC’s)
PLC – Programmable Logic Controller (Control Logix 5000, PLC 2/15, Micro 84 Modicon, etc.)
PID – Proportional Integral Derivative (A PLC instruction that controls a process variable such as flow, pressure, temperature, or level).

Why did Yamaha ship the WR450 with lean settings? Who cares?

  • Hick

Posted January 28, 2003 - 09:10 PM


Why did Yamaha ship the WR450 with lean settings?

Where ya been? They've been doing that since 1998!

That was five years ago BTW: 2003 less 1998 equals 5. I'm catchin' on!!

  • Superbike

Posted January 29, 2003 - 01:40 AM


VOR over Yamaha? All things a side. I would not buy the VOR at half price. Woodruff key a dealer fix? If so a spark plug must also be a dealer fix :) Really though. The key is desingned to fail. If you get the enginge just right the auto decompression will leave the valve closed. You bump the e start against compression a few times going what the heck is going on! Something will give, tarter or the key? How would you engineer it? Yamaha says to bump it with the kickstarter then try again in the manual, not to keep pushing the button. This is just what I think is going on. Even on the KTM it is supposed to be used for restarts such as during a race, not a primary starting system. Does Yamaha say the same? I really think it is somthing along these lines. My god man, go KTM. The suspension may kill you but atleast you will be able to get parts in 5 years. ---Mike

  • starttman

Posted January 29, 2003 - 02:00 AM


hey alabama rider... I ain't no engineer.... never even been on a train...I can run a bead around a pipe though.....I can also climb my fat azz on my yami and drive 20 miles away from my truck....and never worry about her failing me....I bet if i met you personally you'd be one of those obnoxious ppl I can't stand to be around.....

go get a vor...then when you go to resell it you could donate it to charity... :)

  • Motorod

Posted January 29, 2003 - 03:07 AM


You guys are pretty tough on Bama. IMHO, I think he is just trying to do the same thing I am. That is to find a bike that suits his needs, at the best price, and in the time frame he wants to buy it. Where else would he go to compare the WR, VOR, or KTM? :) All you guys are doing is defending the WR. It needs no defense! He is wanting help, and for those of you that have the WR450, I think you have helped in you honest participation of what has happen since you bought your bike. Is this not what TT is all about? Yes it is a new bike production and yes it does have problems, and yes all new production bikes have problems, and yes other bikes have problems. He is just trying to figure out which ones he wants to live with. I have seen him on the other boards asking the same questions. I know that is why I am here! If it was not for the free advise I get off this board, I believe I would have a love-in somewhere else. You guys have cut down the KTM suspension, and I have listened, because I have never owned a KTM before or ridden one. The suspension worries me more than the motor (that’s my biggest concern). I owned a 2000 YZ426 and absolutely loved the suspension. At 230 lb's I don't care at all what these bikes weight, and have not figured out why 10 lb's would make a difference to any of you? I broke my collar bone in June of last year, saw my dealer the nest week, gave him my RM250 to sell and ordered a YZ450F. I saw the WR450 in August at the Loretta Lynn's race and fell in love with it. I called my dealer the next week and changed my order to the WR. He said it would be here in December at the time, then January, then March. If not for the delay, I would be on one now. I have had time to look around and now think the WR may have competition with KTM. Who Knows, if everyone had the same opinion, their would only be one bike out there. I think opinions about how you feel about a bike are welcomed, but how you feel about someone here that gives his opinion are not welcome. AND that's just My Opinion.
BTW, If your not a professional engineer, you have no clue what it takes to be one!

  • Superbike

Posted January 29, 2003 - 04:01 AM


Well put Motorod. All things aside. KTM IMHO killer bike. I almost bought one. The suspension held me back. VOR , great looking bike. I never considerd one even though the dealer is only 10 miles away. I fear not being able to get parts in the future if they do not fly. Yamaha has some very minor flaws. The clutch is supposedly fixed on the WR. The woodruff key deal. There is a reason. Yamaha tells how to keep it from happening in the manual. Some one posted it on here. In my mind this is the first year that the WR is a threat to the KTM. They did there homwork. I ride a YZ 426 now and the suspension is amazing. If you set up your bike, you will go faster on the Yamaha. Unless you have Alan Randt set up your Bike. Yes, I know what it takes to be an engineer. I do it every day. ---Mike

  • Motorod

Posted January 29, 2003 - 04:36 AM


Are you saying you rode a KTM and did not like the suspension, or you were afraid to buy one because you were not sure you would like the KTM suspension? That is my delima right know, I know the WR suspension is for me, but I'm not sure the KTM will be. If KTM suspension was as good I would get one. Although, I would put Blue plastic on it, if I can find it. :)

  • beezer

Posted January 29, 2003 - 05:08 AM


I buying a VOR too.

Alabami is much smarter than you guys. He's a professional engineer.

Shut up and listen!

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  • IceBox

Posted January 29, 2003 - 05:37 AM


What if, what if...

.. you of all people should know that you can not take only a few bikes from a much much larger production lot and say this is the failure rate. If you were to take a larger sample then you would get the variability that occurs during production (tools wearing, differences in material control etc). I am just trying to get across that according to TT it may seem alarming that several bikes have had the key shear but give it some time, ride out the storm. We have not heard yet from those that are aware of the problem ahead of time and will minimize their variables by not making any mods and changing their jetting a step richer right off the bat.

We need to hear from more people that have richer jetting and checked the nut to see if it was torqued properly from the beginning.

Now that we are aware of the potential problem we can attack the problem, getting to the root of it, instead of proposing why or what if questions that can not be answer without more input data from other TT members. Contribute to the pot don't stir it. :)

  • jwriott

Posted January 29, 2003 - 06:10 AM


Have you looked at an XR650R? They are way lighter than your XR650L and if you are already used to a tank like that, the XR650R would probably make you pretty happy. You can get them cheap as well and usually dealers have some left over.

Did I mention that it hauls a$$ and is very reliable?

  • mole1

Posted January 29, 2003 - 06:50 AM


alabamy........hmmm , lets see
1.VFD - variable frequency drive , various applications available depending on motor hp rating . designed to run electric motors more effiecently . i've never had the opportunity to take one apart to see what makes it tick , i guess thats your job. :D
2.MCC - motor control center , lots of neat gadgets in one of those , price per application
3.PLC - programmable logic controller , what do you want to your machinery to do today ?
4.PID - proportional integral derivitive control , never sold one before , probably never will .
5.products of combustion ? - fuel , air , temp and pressure . by products of combustion - co2 , sulpher and any number of noxious compounds
6.why did yamaha and why does every other mfg ship their products with lean settings ? - amateur as apposed to a proffessional engineer at each factory ? :) ever heard of the EPA or CARB ? i'm sure there are emmisions standards a bike has to meet in order to be sold in any given country . maybe you should research those statistics . :D

  • Dwight_Rudder

Posted January 29, 2003 - 06:51 AM


Well, with the childish comments to serious questions is why I went with the KTM 525 EXC. I was shocked. I didn't think I would be able to get the suspension to work as well as my Honda XRs and they were PLUSH. So far I was wrong and the KTM is surprising me. As for the VOR I wouldn't buy the VOR due to the perimeter frame design. I am not an advocate for it as it seems to pass to much impact to my arse. BUT in favor of it it seems the New VOR importer as of last friday is in MISSISSIPPI. The Mondial family ( who have been making motorcycles since the 20's ) bought out VOR and was looking for someone to help handle USA affairs. I think that YAMAHA is getting much better but the wide radiators and short stroke engine turned me off. I want 4 stroke type power not a 4 stroke that thinks it is a 2 stroke. I will be watching Yamaha from now own because they are improving and will be a serious threat in another year or so. Just lighten up a bit on those with questions , they just want to make an intellegent desision.

  • beezer

Posted January 29, 2003 - 07:12 AM


Due to the childish answers to serious questions I am now buying a KTM 525 EXC.

  • Alabama_Rider

Posted January 29, 2003 - 08:51 AM


Very good mole, with a little help from tk421, I suppose. btw, the VFD controls the volts\hertz ratio allowing variable speed without burning up your ac motor.... works great. A-B, Siemens, Eaton, GE all make em. saves $$ ..... Dwight, did I hear you say you bought a KTM??? Please elaborate. As for the Yamaha, I may have a better attitude if my dealer hadn't sold mine out from under me.. I guess I will take another look at the WR450. But where can you find one? Meanwhile, yes we need more data for a better statistical analysis of the key problem. Please collect it.... my concern is being stranded, 15 miles out in a place like DeSoto. Dwight knows where that is... I will call my Yamaha dealer again and see if he has found a Wr450 yet.... :jawdrop:Conclusion VOR450EN=better suspension, (Paoli), small tank;... Yamaha=better motor, more power, more aftermarket parts.... KTM=don't know yet..

  • Thumpleupagus

Posted January 29, 2003 - 09:50 AM


Tiderider...you're a funny guy-very entertaining to say the least. Rattling off "engineering" terms is certainly impressive, but I'm guessing the only one you really impressed was yourself... Give me 10 minutes and an internet connection and I can talk about electrical circuits, tax implications for different corporations, fashion trends, or construction methods in Laramie Wyoming... (the point is it doesn't take much to type in some terms and "quiz" people)
Anyway, you started out ranting about how there are NO WR450's around. People said they have them, you said "we'll see who is right". You stuck with your convictions (which is certainly honorable, albeit incorrect), and you were proven wrong. Now you bring up issues that are certainly concerning but definitely don't support your "30% failure rate". As others have said, buy the VOR-quit bothering us. Your rambling is just that-rambling. You aren't contributing anything to the discussion, just offereing reasons why you should go another direction. And finally, please spare us the "I'm an engineer" explanation. It certainly doesn't help your status, and lends nothing to the decision of which bike to buy... :)

Why did Yamaha ship the WR with lean settings? Could have to do with the EPA, could have to do with market research on where their cust's are located (higher elevation), could be a mistake, who knows?

  • Jonesy920

Posted January 29, 2003 - 10:25 AM


I assume ( I know ass-u-me) that Yahmaha did the same thing as KTM did to get green sticker. Lean jetting . When I was talking to my KTM dealer he already had the jets ordered for each new 4 stroke he sold. I went with the WR because of price and the new motor.

  • Math

Posted January 29, 2003 - 11:46 AM


Dear Alabama Rider,

I'm just an ordinary guy that likes to ride and get info about motorcycling to get a little better at solving mechanical problems and doing a proper maintenance on his bike.

I was hoping to get some input on how the VOR is as I totally ignore what this bike is like. I got to say I admire your patience. Out of what?...30 answers you received, IMHO only 10 are useful. The rest is kidergarden-like b*tchin'. This is the first time that I see such a thing on a motorcycle forum.

Where are the moderators?

  • neWRiver

Posted January 29, 2003 - 12:13 PM


Where are the moderators?

Never very far... :)

Like you said this ain't kindergarten, we don't serve milk and cookies and enforce "nap time". Although we do like to keep things on a more "professional" level and share mutual respect amongst ourselves, frankness and disagreement are not completely unwelcome. You can't take a controversial position and expect nothing but "golf claps" from your fellows.

We're keeping an eye here and so far it seems pretty much above the belt. But, we certainly don't want to see anyone get bruised up. As I see it, Alabama_Rider gives as good as he gets for the most part and can stand on his own here.

Let's not let our disagreements get personal though, ok? I really don't wont to send notes home to all of your mommies, but I will if I have to.


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