I rode with my chain way too tight....


30 replies to this topic
  • godhappan

Posted December 14, 2008 - 04:43 PM

#1

I hadn't ridden in a while and I was determined to ride,I worked on my bike all night last night, finishing the front fork seals, setting oil height, checking torques. my bike was on a stand and I didn't even think about it, and tightened my chain, because it seemed loose. (oops)

I had thought I had done a great job.the next day I took it off the stand, fired it up and went on a ride. :foul:

I got about 20 miles (on smooth gravel roads, reaching 80mph numerous times) and stopped for a drink, and got back on my bike, I heard a lot of creaking coming from the rear end, I got off the bike and pushed it next to me to see what it was, it was the chain creaking on the rear sprocket from tension...:usa:

then I looked at my hub, and most my spokes loose, hanging a 1/2" from their bored hole and their threads were fully exposed. :usa: :smirk:

the creaking was a mix of the chain on the sprocket, pulling one side in, and the spokes going in and out of their "home" on the now loose rim. :moon: :smirk: :thumbsup:

thus resulting in a miracle cell phone call from the boonies to the "chase truck" AKA, dad; a wasted riding day and a long wait...

so now I'm worried about my hub and by front sprocket. and what if any structural/internal damage I could have caused.

I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else, and what happened. (anything bad?)

I know I have to replace both my ruined sprockets, chain, and get my rim trued.

Should I worry about the hub and front sprocket shaft/seals/bearings;
or should I be happy I caught it, fix it and ride?

I am an idiot. :smirk: oops I have a wr, no matter though...

  • crider400

Posted December 14, 2008 - 04:49 PM

#2

This happened to a buddy of mine, but your the lucky you checked, he dint and he had to get towed in. His whole rear sproket teeth were gone except a few, they were badly bent. i would replace the rear sproket, and check the front sproket, see if the sproket is loose in any way, then go from there. if it is nice and snug and if the teeth are not bent or worn in any way, its fine.

  • motojoe_23

Posted December 14, 2008 - 04:52 PM

#3

It CAN cause a leak in the counter shaft seal. But wont always. I doubt it damaged the hub at all. It CAN cause excessive wear on the wheel bearings and/or swingarm bearings as well. But not hugely likely. Check everything out. Fix the rim, and get a new chainset and hope for the best.

  • godhappan

Posted December 14, 2008 - 04:56 PM

#4

I had all my teeth on the rear ,they were bent, and cupped though. it is aluminum, and was brand new before today.

the front sprocket is steel so there was very little noticeable damage, unless you run your finger flat on it you can feel an "edge"

they will be replaced along with a new chain.

is it hard /expensive to true a rim?

  • nickeenoo

Posted December 14, 2008 - 05:10 PM

#5

It's not terrible hard or expensive to true a rim but there might be damage to the spoke/rim threads. If there are any threads that are damaged you will likely need to replace the rim and/or spokes. If the threads are good, just take your time truing the wheel (I think there are some specs in the manual) and you should be fine. As long as you don't overtighten the spokes there really isn't much you can do to damage anything. If you can't get it right yourself you could always take it in to have it done. I think our local shop charges $25 to completely swap out the rim so I'm assuming it would be less to true the wheel.

Nate

  • Justin89

Posted December 14, 2008 - 05:12 PM

#6

I had all my teeth on the rear ,they were bent, and cupped though. it is aluminum, and was brand new before today.

the front sprocket is steel so there was very little noticeable damage, unless you run your finger flat on it you can feel an "edge"

they will be replaced along with a new chain.

is it hard /expensive to true a rim?


Its not all that hard but if youhave the dough, just take it to a shop and save your troubles. mine up here costs $25 per wheel so its not all that bad:excuseme: :thumbsup:

  • godhappan

Posted December 14, 2008 - 05:29 PM

#7

I hand tightened all the spokes while I was waiting on my dad so I don't think there's thread damage. I saw a little rubbage marks on the spokes but no bends or anything it was a flat smooth road so hopefully I got lucky

if it's only $25 than I will have the shop do it.

does the tire have to be off to true?


the way you yz guys respond compared to the wr guys is unreal, I might have to pretend I have a yz...

  • motojoe_23

Posted December 14, 2008 - 06:10 PM

#8

It is prefered that the tire is off to true it up, at least when I do it.

You can do it, and a spoke wrench is something you should have anyway. BUT to do it right, a spoke torque wrench is needed, and it is not something the average rider would have.

It is not hard, but it can be damn frustrating. I can do it, and I used to be a mechanic and was paid to do it. But for the price I will pay someone else and then I double check them these days. Its just not worth the aggravation to me :thumbsup:

  • Wiz636

Posted December 14, 2008 - 08:21 PM

#9

I would carefully inspect the hub flange that the sprocket mounts to. Also, did the sprocket bolts loosen? If they had loosened up at all I would replace them all.

  • Justin89

Posted December 14, 2008 - 10:14 PM

#10

Yes its cheaper to have the tire off the rim. And about the spoke torque wrench, that is the best way to go. I used one on my Kawi and the spokes are still tight like the day it was new and I ride A LOT. I check them before every single time I go out and after each time. Even if it is a 5 min ride, I check them:thumbsup:

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  • grayracer513

Posted December 15, 2008 - 05:49 AM

#11

I would carefully inspect the hub flange that the sprocket mounts to. Also, did the sprocket bolts loosen? If they had loosened up at all I would replace them all.

That's what I'm thinking. Tight chains have been known to tear the hub flange completely off due to the force applied as the suspension works through center travel. If it was flexed enough to loosen the spokes, this would be worrisome. Measure the chain for wear according to the manual, too.

  • BC3

Posted December 15, 2008 - 08:13 AM

#12

[COLOR="Blue"]Having your CHAIN too tight was not why your spokes came loose. They needed to be tightened before that ride.....Completely different situation from the "Tight Chain" Sounds like you need to check them more often....Unless of course like Gray mentioned it actually cracked the hub flanges..But I think 20 miles of 80 MPH is what worked on your already loose spokes [/COLOR]

  • godhappan

Posted December 15, 2008 - 09:39 AM

#13

I tore down after I got back and the hub bolts were still very tight, just like they were. rim is straight.

The spokes were not loose at home before I left, I pinch them to check every now and again, inspect the spokes and the exposed thread. BUT I have never tightened them since I had the bike, and it has maybe 2000 miles on it.

I think that the mixture of the tight chain and unchecked spokes was the cause of the spoke deal, but in a way that I hadn't thought, I figure now that the rear suspension was limited by the tight chain, transferring the force onto the rim, and unchecked, possibly loose spokes; the unbalanced rear tire shook itself apart quick.

I had thought at first the drive pulling so hard on one side it could pull the rim apart somehow but looking at it I don't think that's possible.

How common is a broken rear hub due to ignorance?

for now I'll go get it trued, and waste 150 on new drive. (does anyone know where to get a 45t rear sprocket?) and hope for the best.

  • Wiz636

Posted December 15, 2008 - 10:01 AM

#14

How common is a broken rear hub due to ignorance?


I don't know how common it is but it is definitely not uncommon when the chain is adjusted too tight.

  • BC3

Posted December 16, 2008 - 11:17 AM

#15

[COLOR="Blue"]Depending on how much you weigh there could be a ton of pressure on the hub when you hit a bump or land from a jump....With the multiplication factor through the swing arm ....Munching a hub would be child's play....Be sure and check that axle to.. [/COLOR]

  • matt4x4

Posted December 16, 2008 - 12:14 PM

#16

I have to agree with BC3 here - can't really see your spokes working loose unless you did some damage to the hub and you'd know that pretty quick, but if the hub was not damaged or warped (one would think it would crack before warping), there's really nothing that would even remotely put any serious stress on any of your spokes.
I can tell you that your countershaft bearing, hub and wheel bearings will take a beating though along with the chain and sprockets.

Keep an eye on your countershaft seal, if there's any signs of a leak in the future you might have to replace that bearing very soon.

  • CRF250X Rider

Posted December 16, 2008 - 12:34 PM

#17

I figure now that the rear suspension was limited by the tight chain, transferring the force onto the rim, and unchecked, possibly loose spokes; the unbalanced rear tire shook itself apart quick.


I think thats a pretty good thought.

BTW, I really don't know much about this stuff but, Wouldn't a chain break before a hub?

  • BC3

Posted December 16, 2008 - 12:43 PM

#18

[COLOR="Blue"]A 520 chain can be as strong as 8500 lbs in strength....[/COLOR]

  • grayracer513

Posted December 16, 2008 - 12:49 PM

#19

BTW, I really don't know much about this stuff but, Wouldn't a chain break before a hub?

Not necessarily. Certain KTM models will break the crankcases due to the force pulling the output shaft back before they break chains or hubs. I just depends on which is the weakest element.

The problem is that in any motorcycle other than certain new BMW's, the chain is at its tightest point when the centers of the output shaft, swing arm pivot, and rear axle are on the same line with each other. Any movement away from this position loosens the chain. The specs listed in the manual are based on having adjusted the chain to 1/2" true slack at this tightest position, and then measuring the slack that results when the bike is put back up on the stand where the measurement can always be made in the same way (repeatable). If you run the chain tighter, the leverage the chain can apply to the sprockets can easily exceed 10 tons.

Look at the pictures in this post just for fun:

http://www.thumperta...089#post7243089

  • ThumperKid250F

Posted December 16, 2008 - 03:17 PM

#20

Not necessarily. Certain KTM models will break the crankcases due to the force pulling the output shaft back before they break chains or hubs. I just depends on which is the weakest element.

The problem is that in any motorcycle other than certain new BMW's, the chain is at its tightest point when the centers of the output shaft, swing arm pivot, and rear axle are on the same line with each other. Any movement away from this position loosens the chain. The specs listed in the manual are based on having adjusted the chain to 1/2" true slack at this tightest position, and then measuring the slack that results when the bike is put back up on the stand where the measurement can always be made in the same way (repeatable). If you run the chain tighter, the leverage the chain can apply to the sprockets can easily exceed 10 tons.

Look at the pictures in this post just for fun:

http://www.thumperta...089#post7243089


i looked at the pictures and even tho that is the minimum tension it still looks too loose. even tho i run my chains just a little tighter than that ( not by much)

is that how you run your chains or is that just a example of the minimum tension?

also i dont no if this is true but i had a thought about chains and your body weight.. lets say you weight 220lbs you should make yourchain more loose than you should if you weigh 180. like i said just a thought





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