07+ Stator Talk


65 replies to this topic
  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted November 09, 2009 - 08:29 AM

#41

So is the general agreement that the Trail tech is the best for charging at idle? I'm still having problems with my bike draining the battery at idle with the head light on. Bike is a 05 wr450 with baja D kit on. Bike has the baja d reg/rec and a 35 watt light bulb. I put a new battery in and it did not solve the problem.


See Coop's post #36 above. My feeling is that it is the best for low rpm charging. Again though, you need to find out what your bike is doing now before going on.

1. Charge the battery fully and measure the volts after 30 mins
2. Run the bike at idle with no lights on and measure again (voltage should be higher now)
3. Run the bike with the headlight on at idle and measure again.

There is probably a little more to it than this, but if voltage from #3 dips below voltage from #1, the charging system is not keeping up with the load.

  • Demo_Slug

Posted November 09, 2009 - 01:01 PM

#42

Posted Image


odd results.

at idle the stock AC is 8V (RMS I would assume, which would be 11.3 peak), yet the regulator out put is higher then that(13.6V). which is not physically possible, unless they have a boost circuit of sorts in the regulator. Which would be interesting. Are you 100% sure you didn’t measure the Baja designs with a Lifpo4 battery pack installed?

And I would bet that most of your data on output DC voltage at idle has more to do with the regulator and battery... then the stators.

And now that you are running a Lifpo4 pack, which have a fully charged value of ~13.5V volts aren’t you back in the same boat? Ie you won’t be doing much charging at idle with an HID on? The trail tech is only hitting 13.1V at idle with one HID. Although the voltage might be different with the Lifepo installed.

Regardless, thanks for the data. Props.

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted November 09, 2009 - 01:23 PM

#43

And now that you are running a Lifpo4 pack


I am NOT running the Lifpo4 pack....I AM running the stock battery.

ALL my testing was done with the stock battery

at idle the stock AC is 8V (RMS I would assume, which would be 11.3 peak), yet the regulator out put is higher then that(13.6V). which is not physically possible, unless they have a boost circuit of sorts in the regulator.


I need to clarify, when it says "stock stator" it really means its the stock stator with the Baja Designs stator mod :smirk:

And I would bet that most of your data on output DC voltage at idle has more to do with the regulator and battery... then the stators.


I would say that it might be a small portion of it, but a large part of it is HOW the stators are wound :ride:

  • Demo_Slug

Posted November 10, 2009 - 01:01 AM

#44

I would say that it might be a small portion of it, but a large part of it is HOW the stators are wound :smirk:


have you tried it? swapping regulators. :lol:

I haven't done any work on my charging system, but from your pictures, I'm guessing the Flywheel has some permanent magnets and that induces a current in the coils.

given that the number of poles is the same on all these stators,

there is just the number of turns of wire around each coil and the permeability of the core. the thicker wire will have less copper loss. so yeah. unless one has more turns then the other, i'd expect them to behave very similarly. :ride:

the stator only has 2 wires out right?

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted November 10, 2009 - 07:14 AM

#45

have you tried it? swapping regulators. :lol:


No simply because they all install/plug in differently :lol:

I'm guessing the Flywheel has some permanent magnets and that induces a current in the coils.


Correct

there is just the number of turns of wire around each coil and the permeability of the core. the thicker wire will have less copper loss. so yeah. unless one has more turns then the other, i'd expect them to behave very similarly. :smirk:


You would be surprised the thickness of the core also plays into output. also how each mfg winds their stator and what wire they use. Each stator truly is different :ride:

the stator only has 2 wires out right?


Yup and the power out put is in AC form

  • PBDBLUE

Posted November 10, 2009 - 07:39 AM

#46

Not sure what kind of meter Coop used to measure the AC voltage but it needs to be a true rms meter since the output is not 60 hz otherwise the readings will not be very accurate. In reality it doesn't matter much as the DC output is what's important.

  • Demo_Slug

Posted November 10, 2009 - 10:17 AM

#47

You would be surprised the thickness of the core also plays into output. also how each mfg winds their stator and what wire they use. Each stator truly is different :smirk:


I'd model it like a solinoid. inner diamter of the coil is what matters. I'd still focus on the number of turns.
http://hyperphysics....ric/indsol.html


and still think that given that thease all have the same number of poles and similar inductance, at the same RPM. I expect the behavior of the regulator to dominate the the DC voltage.

  • ironlife

Posted November 11, 2009 - 12:44 AM

#48

I have a fairly heavily modified 2008 WR 450 that has had the Trail Tech electrical system in it since this time last year. I have done in the last year (no bs) over 100 night rides as until very recently I was living in Las Vegas about 5 miles from Thumpertalk.
I started out by installing the electrical system. My stock headlight was much dimmer!I called Justin at Trail Tech and he told me"your light is trying to run off what little AC power is left, hook it up straight to the battery". I did and life was much better.
I around this very same time had bought two of their SCMR16 Helmet lights and had been using them off batteries. I hooked up my first Tether or Pigtail to my WR450 and then my 08 Raptor 700R. Life was much, much better!
Side Note: the odd ball machines not listed by Baja Designs, Trail Tech that you want to put a tether on but can't get an answer-try it! I was able to run the helmet lights off of a 2209 Yamaha XT250, 2008 Yamaha Wolverine 4 x 4 and a 2008 Yamaha WR 250 R without incident. the utility quads and Dual sport bikes apparently have decent electrical systems stock!
I then began to wonder how much faster I would be able to ride if I had this badass helmet light and a much better light on the machines. An incident one night that left me 30 miles from anything with only my stock headlight convinced me more light equals mo better!
I installed the Baja Designs Dablo HID and was amazed at how much better I could see/ride at night! No problems with charging or anything for that matter. The only downfall to this setup was anywhere near a road I felt like I had to turn off both my headlight and I always turn off my helmet light as it is too easy to look at something and bliknd them for 5 minutes! The Diablo has a spot in the lower left corner(looking at the back) of the actual light housing for a little 7watt halogen running light. Problem solved!
I made some money, rode a lot and wanted to try something different/better. Time for the X2! What a great light! You can't beat this for tight stuff! The light pattern is unbelievable! The SC4(flood) draws 40 watts and MR16(spot) draws 30 for a total of 70watts. With the SCMR16 helmet light which draws 30 I am at 100 watts of load plus my ignition, plus my taillight,meter etc. I start having problems despite turning off the SC4 which is rigged as Hibeam on my handlebar switch immediately upon idling and turning everything off and then shutting my motor off etc. According to Justin from trail tech my stator puts out 100 watts "just off idle" and peak is "just over 100watts like 105 or something. Turns out the bike quit charging riding back over Wheeler Pass from Pahrump to Cold Creek Nevada one night last month. I call Justin he tells me how to test the stator. Stator is good!. Must be the battery. Replace the battery, clean the terminals-go riding. few hours later lights won't fire etc. Voltage low.
I go back to camp and tear the bike apart. It turns out the weatherpak coming off the regulator had a bad connection and was a little burnt. A bad connection cause this or max load? I splice in some wire with butt connectors and shrink wrap everything-replace battery again. No problems at all! I think it ws a bad connection. The regulator/Rectifier is a 150watt item. It is only at approximately 70% at 110 watts so it shouldn't be working hard!
I am right now putting the Diablo back on with the 7 watt running light set up as Lo Beam on the handlebar switch and the 35 watt Diablo+the 7 watt running light as Hi Beam on the handlebar switch that puts me at 42 + 30 (Diablo&7 + SCMR16 helmet) which is to reiterate 72 watts. I figure the ignition and taillight etc I have to be around 80 watts of load. At idle I should be drawing a little less than whatever a little less than whatever the system puts out. Remember its 100 watts "a little off idle". With a little prompting I got the Baja Designs guy to say basically the same thing. their systems put out the same wattage they just don't speak the same lingo! Baja designs claims a little more output but WILL not be as optimistic when recomending lights. Trail tech is a little more conservative/realistic with their ratings but will recomend lights that max out their system without reservation and rightfully so. If you don't stop much a 100 watts of lights with their system on a newer WR450 will not be a problem. Just shut some stuff off and then kill the bike! Rmember these HID lights draw a little more than double at startup! Kick the X2 and your helmet light on all at once with the bike off and your hitting the battery with over 200 watts!
There is no way you are going to get the same 100 watts of a Baja Designs regulator/float the ground mod as you will with Trail Techs system. Look at a stock stator. They don't even wind all the poles or whatever they call them. You are getting 40 or 50 watts of DC with that mod max.
Final incarnation: No clutch safety switch, no neutral safety switch, took out a bunch of wires and relays and whatever else. I used one of those two for a hidden anti-theft switch. Works great! Bike will still start with the kick start though. I just ordered 3 AP-2 Auxilary fuse blocks for my machines as I am tired of bumping the handlebar switch and turning my light on and my OCD goes into overdrive and sees the wires and inline fuse holders etc. Here is the link, I'll let you know how it works!
http://www.centechwi...anels/ap2.shtml
The AP-1 and the AP-2 are dimensionally the same. The AP-2 has the capability for a number of fused auxilary circuits that come on with the main switch via a relay. Both are WATER RESISTANT.
Have a good day.
Trail Tech is awesome! So is BD but I am not as familar with them. Try their flashlight:-)

  • dl19

Posted November 18, 2009 - 10:17 PM

#49

Great info...exactly what I am looking for on my next 2005 WR450 bike upgrade. Has anyone used or tried one of the HO flywheels? What does it mean that my OEM is dual rated or dual outut of 25/100 watt? The HO flywheels are supposed to increase output to 150 watts with a 100 watt stator because of the different magnets. I am wanting to run the TT X2 (70W), and two scm16's (60w), Vapor Computer, and GPS in addition. I will deffinately be watching this and asking questions in the coming months. Keep the info coming.

Edited by dl19, November 18, 2009 - 10:42 PM.


  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted November 19, 2009 - 06:38 AM

#50

What does it mean that my OEM is dual rated or dual outut of 25/100 watt?


It means that there is an ac ouput for your lights (100 watts) and dc to the battery (25 watts). I have to say though, that the 100 watts ac figure sounds a little high. Most of the replacement stators or rewound stator services out there end up with one set of outputs all run through the battery so the wiring changes a bit.

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  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted November 19, 2009 - 07:46 AM

#51

Has anyone used or tried one of the HO flywheels?


I didnt think they make a different flywheel for the WR. Do you got a link? Maybe I'll do some testing :excuseme:

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted January 05, 2010 - 06:57 PM

#52

Hi guys,
This is Evan in R&D at Electrosport Industries.
We are just now launching our ESK770 high power DC kit for the WR450's


Well Guys,

A couple months back, I blasted Evan on his numbers/claims on the stator his company puts out for the WR and all I have to say is boy was I wrong in my statements :smirk:

After Evan kindly offered up a FREE stator for my Dad's 06, I finally got around to installing the stator and testing it.

The install was super easy (of course this was the 4th stator I have tested :smirk:)

Fit and Finish is top notch...the parts of very good quality (up there is Trail Tech)

Power outputs (FYI I will be updating the DC readings after I get a full charge on my Dad's 06 as these reading were taken with a poorly charged battery):

Posted Image

As you can see, the data Evan originally posted compared to what I recorded are different. Not sure why but if we continue to compare all the stators based on the way I have been testing, you can see right off the bat the ElectroSports stator puts out the power quite well. I am very pleased to say that over the Xmas/New Years break, my Dad used and abused his bike and NEVER had an issue from the stator and reg/rec combo :moon:

Evan my Dad and I owe you a BIG thank you for stepping up and offering a kit for us to test and report back on! :cheers::worthy:

  • fadingfastsd

Posted January 07, 2010 - 09:18 AM

#53

Hey Aaron,
Thanks for the review, and posting the numbers.
I'm glad I could get my product out there for a real world review.

I'm not sure why your numbers are slightly lower than what I posted, although I would like to see your results with a known good fully charged battery.

Like I said before, the numbers I posted were running these parts on our bench top test rig, a Yuasa YTZ7 Battery, and 2 of our 4" HID lights. This is very close to real world numbers, but I suppose I didn't account for power draw from the CDI box running the ignition, although that shouldn't have made 1V difference at 1/4 throttle.

Anyways, if anybody has any questions or anything, let me know! The WR450 kits are in stock and available!

Evan

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted January 07, 2010 - 10:50 AM

#54

Hey Aaron,
I would like to see your results with a known good fully charged battery.


I can have that this weekend...also my Dad's bike does have a full Baja Designs dual sport kit on so that takes a little power as well (but I wouldnt imagine much) :moon:

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 07, 2010 - 02:07 PM

#55

I can have that this weekend...also my Dad's bike does have a full Baja Designs dual sport kit on so that takes a little power as well (but I wouldnt imagine much) :moon:


We just need to get you to shed the lab coat, get out of the stator swapping business, trade in your multi-meter for a girlfriend, and actually go on a night ride again. Brother I got one that will blow your mind! Crazy fun in the day, but would be out of control at night. :cheers:

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted January 07, 2010 - 02:09 PM

#56

trade in your multi-meter for a girlfriend


Hey I got one of those now :cheers: and she even rides dirt bikes :smirk::banana:

When is the next night ride? It is a little cold out right now...to bad you dont have a dual sport :moon:

  • fadingfastsd

Posted January 07, 2010 - 02:14 PM

#57

We just need to get you to shed the lab coat, get out of the stator swapping business, trade in your multi-meter for a girlfriend, and actually go on a night ride again. Brother I got one that will blow your mind! Crazy fun in the day, but would be out of control at night. :moon:


Are you in San Diego area? Lets go ride! I'm up for it.

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted January 07, 2010 - 02:18 PM

#58

Are you in San Diego area? Lets go ride! I'm up for it.


Evan....Brett and I both are in SD

Are you dual sported?

PS Ill give you a call right now :moon:

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 07, 2010 - 02:18 PM

#59

Hey I got one of those now :cheers: and she even rides dirt bikes :smirk::banana:

When is the next night ride? It is a little cold out right now...to bad you dont have a dual sport :moon:


Perfect. If she rides, bring her and she can warm you up on the trail. No more cold excuse. Savy?

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 07, 2010 - 02:24 PM

#60

Are you in San Diego area? Lets go ride! I'm up for it.


Yes, I'm in San Diego and almost always up for a spin. I probably do more night miles in the summer than day miles the rest of the year, but game just about any time.




 
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