XR200 v 200X engines


21 replies to this topic
  • CharlieT

Posted 28 October 2008 - 07:11 AM

#1

Ok, I know absolutely nothing about the 200x ATC motors. Blew up the old XR200 motor in my conversion. Guy near here has a 200X ATC with a rebuilt motor that's very reasonably priced, cheaper than a Lifan engine. But what is the difference in the motors? ANy parts interchangeable? Top ends??

  • xr75kid

Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:04 AM

#2

Wow that must be a bummer you did such a great job on that conversion.Im no expert on 200x engines either but from what Ive read on here they have more of a performance carb and larger cooling fins on the cylinder. I believe the entire top end if not more is interchangeable. I think the 200x was a performance aimed trike all around. I think I would pick it up if it were reasonable. Id stay away from the Lifan engines.

  • WAMXP1MP

Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:33 AM

#3

I'd like to know this myself visually they look similar I think the difference maybe in the kick start and the tranny 5 speed vs 6. Perhaps you could make it into an XR 200 motor swaping the parts around.

  • zbnutcase

Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:51 AM

#4

The 200x engine has: Forward kickstart, larger cooling fins on cylinder, .5mm smaller bore, 8.5 to 1 compression, (XRs are 10 to 1), 2mm SMALLER carb, no compression release, 5spd trans. It was detuned by Honda for more low end torque due to the weight of the trike. Yes parts are VERY interchangable but no way to add comp. release to forward kick start. Hope this helps. 'nutcase

  • CharlieT

Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:52 AM

#5

Wow that must be a bummer you did such a great job on that conversion.Im no expert on 200x engines either but from what Ive read on here they have more of a performance carb and larger cooling fins on the cylinder. I believe the entire top end if not more is interchangeable. I think the 200x was a performance aimed trike all around. I think I would pick it up if it were reasonable. Id stay away from the Lifan engines.


That'll teach me to try and run with a CR125 on a vintage MX track:banghead: :lol: :lol:

My hona ID guie says the X engien is 192cc, 5-speed, manual clutch, chain drive. THe 200m engine same year is auto-clutch, and the ES has a reverse:banana:

SO the X engien sounds like it should be comparable to teh XR engine. I am assuming the mounts should be the same.:lol: :p

Wonder if the ATC engein kicks forward, like most atc/quads?

  • CharlieT

Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:08 AM

#6

Guess we were typing at the same time. Now that I think about it, the engien I put in the conversion was an old XL185 bottom end with a 200 top end on it. It was a 5-sp, not the 6-spd of the XR.
So I could just trnasfer over the XRcarb. A little more bottom end wouldn't hurt, as I usually ride this on the tight single-tracks. The forward kick wouldn't bother me and may even work better, as with the conversion the normal kick-starter hits the footpeg and limits the range of the kick-startr a little bit. As for the compression release, yrs ago I raced a BSA 441VS, so no compression release on the 200 doesn't phase me. In fact on both the XR's I have, its disconnected. Thanks for the info.

  • xr75kid

Posted 28 October 2008 - 02:29 PM

#7

From what the dudes who build xr100 engines say, the 200x carb is the preferred carb for a nice performance gain on a xr100. I was led to believe it was preferred over the standard xr/atc 200 carbs. I dont know the specifics though.

  • tat2guy

Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:36 PM

#8

In the homework that I've done to do a conversion for myself I've found that the 200x 83 to 85 "ONLY" parts are interchangable. The 200x has a different ratio in the trans and was recommended to me if I wanted to MX the bike. The XR trans was recommended for harescrambles and enduros. Also if a comp release was perferred to run the XR head on a 200x Cylinder. I was told I could use either bottom end and am considering using the 200x bottom to ease the headache of the kicker and foot peg issue.

Has anyone used a larger intake valve or larger valves in these motors??? Or a pumper carb??? How about an alloy framed Yamaha XR conversion???

Thanks Tat (jay)

  • Owyhee

Posted 06 January 2009 - 03:57 PM

#9

Guess we were typing at the same time. Now that I think about it, the engien I put in the conversion was an old XL185 bottom end with a 200 top end on it. It was a 5-sp, not the 6-spd of the XR.
So I could just trnasfer over the XRcarb. A little more bottom end wouldn't hurt, as I usually ride this on the tight single-tracks. The forward kick wouldn't bother me and may even work better, as with the conversion the normal kick-starter hits the footpeg and limits the range of the kick-startr a little bit. As for the compression release, yrs ago I raced a BSA 441VS, so no compression release on the 200 doesn't phase me. In fact on both the XR's I have, its disconnected. Thanks for the info.


From what I gathered, the automatic decompression release is more to keep the kickstarter gears alive than ease of starting.

I too would like to have started with the 200X bottom end as my kickstarter travel is also limited by the footpeg. I thought a flip-up footpeg al la 1960's Greeves would work but even with the footpeg in its top most position the kickstarter still hits it squarely on the top.

"O"

  • CrashTestDummyTraveler

Posted 07 January 2009 - 12:46 AM

#10

Yeah the '83-'85 ATC200x motors have lots in common with the XR200 motors.... both are 6 speeds, simular cylinders (x has bigger fins), simular heads, manual clutches, etc, etc, etc.... but they are different in that the 200x kicks forward.

The '86-'87 ATC200x motor is quite different - different head, cylinder, lower end, shifting mechanism.

Actually, the ATC200s cylinders and heads fit the XR motors... the ATC piston is lower compression, but I figure I need to bore most used cylinders anyways.

If you really want to try something different, you can completly replace an XR engine with an ATC200s engine.... all you need to do is bend the rear brake petal out and figure out how to hook the wiring up. Yeah, it's only a 5 speed, but it is an auto clutch!

  • Chuck.

Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:37 AM

#11

Some more stuff:
All XRs are 6 speeds but there are 2 (maybe 4) gear sets available; the XR185 has a 3.083 first gear and the XR200 has a 2.769 first, all other gears are the same. I've used the 3.083 first gear and hated the big gap to second so it is not my choice for trail riding. The TLR200 has the same first as the XR200 but the gap to second is less with a little bigger gap to third and fourth. The CRF230F has the same first thru third gears as the XR200 but fourth thru sixth are lower for a little less top speed. I have not tried to use TLR or CRF gears in a XR but looking at part fiche indicates they are usable. I don't have any info on the 200x gear ratios.

I think a very good wide ratio gearbox would be to use the XR185 first along with the TLR200 second and third gears. Just slightly bigger gaps between 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 than a XR200.

The XR200, TLR and CRF all have the same 65.5mm bore, the CRF has a longer stroke. All XR185/200 cams are the same.

  • WAMXP1MP

Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:47 AM

#12

Honda sold in Japan the XLR 200R basically a daul sported version it even had a front disc brake setup on the later models and the later models had electric starters and even slightly different looking side panels some other minor stuff.

but then again you could of gotten an XLR 80 or XLR 100 too.

  • tat2guy

Posted 07 January 2009 - 01:13 PM

#13

Becareful when using anything other than 200x parts. The 200s and 200e have different cylinder hieghts because their cases come up higher. So using one of those your piston "WILL" hit the head (thats a very bad thing). I'm unsure how the heads differ though.

Keep it WFO
Tat (Jay)

  • 250Machine

Posted 07 January 2009 - 06:31 PM

#14

Good info here!

for those who are more interested in 3 wheelers check out 3wheelerworldforums.com

anyways 83-85 200x are 5 speeds!! not six only in 86-87 did the 200x have the 6 speed. i heard the whole transmissions are interchangeable(81-83 xr, 83-85 atc, not sure thou. i have been reading up lots on the XR/atc swaps, the whole top ends can be swapped out, head,cylinder,cam chain, cam tensioner, cam. i think the design of the head and valve covers are different, meaning you couldnt use a xr valve cover on the atc head. i have close to 6 XR/atc engines right now and i am trying to get 2 running.

on to that no auto decompression with the 200x motors, those forward kick starters arent that strong, instead of one shaft like the xr200s, the 200x has 2 seperate shafts that transfer the forward movement backwards, i broke my kicker gears 2nd day i had it, and they dont make em anymore! its something to think about when you want to build one of these hybrid motors.

on e bay they have top end rebuild kits, with remanufactured heads and cylinders, its about 150 for cylinder with matching piston and rings, clips, gaskets, then the head is 130 all new valves, guides and springs all at oem specs. so looking at 280 for a new top end, now heres the trick, they accept more than 1 core, each additonal core is like 25 off, so myself having 4 cylinders and heads i might be able to get a healthy discount, and get rid of my junk i dont need for real parts for my projects.

i will stop rambling on now, just when you done with your rebuild, get good photos, and what parts you used. i need more info on this subject.

Ride On
Derel

  • socalxr

Posted 08 January 2009 - 08:54 AM

#15

It's been a few years at least since I was swapping parts around, but from what I can remember when you stick a xr200 clutch cover on the 200x bottom end, it doesn't cover the entire case. But I can't remember what was done to make it work. Also, the tranny and idle gears are much beefier, but again I don't remember if it prevented it from working or not. I do remember it wasn't as easy as I was hoping. Although, you could make the entire bottom end to work with a xr clutch cover and use either a 200x or xr 200 topend. You just wouldn't use the decompression on the head.

  • Kyron

Posted 08 January 2009 - 10:45 AM

#16

Are the 3 wheeler motors wider?


My friend put a 200 motor from a 3wheeler in a 100 frame and the motor sticks WAY out.

His motor also "had" a pull start........ I really should take pictures because its suck a rat bike

  • gman255

Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:33 PM

#17

Great info guys!

Is it posable to convert the 200X foward kicker, to a conventional XR rear kicker, by swapping kick start shafts, and eliminating 200x's intermediate gear and shaft? The X's engine case has a plug for the standard XR kick start shaft, or is that a boss for a bearing?

If so, the decomp mechanism could be adapted, as well? To run the XR200 head..

Or simply, run a old YZF 400 Hot start lever for actuation and a custom cable.

  • CrashTestDummyTraveler

Posted 08 January 2009 - 07:01 PM

#18

Yeah, the 3 wheeler motors are wider.

The right side sticks out about 3" for the auto clutch.
That's why you need to bend the rear brake petal out.

The left side sticks out about 2 1/2" for the pull start.
That's why you need to use the ATC shifter.

I don't run a skid plate but I've never had a problem with it.... despite running Slickrock 4-5 different years and both the Alpine loop and Black Bear in SW Colorado with it.

One summer with this bike my warm up loop was starting at Red Mountain pass, down over Black Bear, through Telluride, up over Imogene, down to Ouray and then back to Red Mountain. About 45 miles in a little less than 3 hours. The next day I did the Alpine loop..... all good fun!

An ATC200 motor fits into a 100 frame? News to me... I'll have to look at it when I get home.

Also some of the ATC heads had a manual decomp lever on the head.

  • socalxr

Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:54 PM

#19

Great info guys!

Is it posable to convert the 200X foward kicker, to a conventional XR rear kicker, by swapping kick start shafts, and eliminating 200x's intermediate gear and shaft? The X's engine case has a plug for the standard XR kick start shaft, or is that a boss for a bearing?

If so, the decomp mechanism could be adapted, as well? To run the XR200 head..

Or simply, run a old YZF 400 Hot start lever for actuation and a custom cable.


Yep. We ran a bunch of 200x motors in our bikes. Mainly because they were available and cheap. We just used the XR200 clutch covers and a few other parts to make it work.

  • dfllake

Posted 27 January 2009 - 10:48 AM

#20

Here's some very usefull info on the beloved Honda single I found a couple years back when I got my TLR200. I was familiar with the XR but not the TLR. Now that I have it, even though it's now a highly modified "play-bike" the thing is a blast!

See links below

http://www-staff.lbo...les/partno.html

http://www.Vins Bike Page, formally '2strokes_html'_files\bikeindex.html

OK The links are messed up! I have the article in a PDF but not sure how to share that either.............. :banana:





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