Will Yamaha raise the bar in 2010?


42 replies to this topic
  • AnotherRedHead

Posted September 25, 2008 - 09:47 AM

#21

extreme reversion at low speeds, aka some giant camshafts....

As we gawk at 50 hp numbers from 450cc's, motogp bikes are constantly pushing the 250rwhp mark at 800cc's. With the right design and the right software the possibilities are endless. 100HP 450s are only a engineers pencil away.

  • aggiemoto99

Posted September 25, 2008 - 10:45 AM

#22

yea i saw they quad. but on the quad there only using a 42 mm throttle body. hondas got a 50mm. i wonder if theyll do anything with that. i bet thats why honda went with a long head tube to make up for bottom end. but i like the 50mm its give the bike a ton of air.



Depends where they measured....Could be the widest part or entrance to it vs actual through diameter....I think Ron Hamp said it was 42 actual or something.

give it up to honda marketing dpmnt.

  • ProjectDIRT

Posted September 25, 2008 - 02:32 PM

#23

oh really nice to know well im gonna be taking one apart here real soon to check it out a buddy is sponsored by mid city honda so ill check i could see them doing that.

  • Ga450owner

Posted September 26, 2008 - 08:05 AM

#24

Well I am torn on this......why? I hate to be the realist....but

I want a EFI new Yami to come out, but based on the Honda and Kawi the cost are going up and both will need a laptop for tuning. Yes this is wizbang cool, I agree. But now this means you will be spending about 10k for a 2010 bike and a laptop to support it, as I have been expecting for years. This will get you a stock bike -but I know most of us will add 1500 -2000k extra for suspension and aftermkt parts. Now the price is up to 12k. So now a 10k bike with a 35 -50% depreciation after 12-24mos depending on geography, in a economy that is terrible, does not bode well for anyone buying. I think ultimately this pricing for technology that will continue to rise will cause the demise to MX riding/racing for the avg family/avg rider and be bad for the sport as a whole.
So I applaud Yami sticking to a carb for 09 and keeping the cost although high, reasonable.....too bad this will not last long. And as almost every other form of racing has gotten out of hand cost wise so will MX.:lame:

  • grayracer513

Posted September 26, 2008 - 08:23 AM

#25

There is no reason the ECM could not be made so that it could either be removed and carried to a desktop computer, or so that it could be reflashed from a USB drive.

  • TooFast

Posted September 26, 2008 - 01:20 PM

#26

I thought kawi and honda offered hand held units with programming capabilities in the $350 range....

If I do go EFI, I'd like a handlebar switch to choose between a full power and a milder delivery while on the run for off road use....


See that muddy off camber hill climb with switchbacks coming up - hit the switch for some soft power and torq up em...yes I ride the Co Rockies

  • TMAC25

Posted September 26, 2008 - 10:30 PM

#27

I was convinced that I was getting a new 450 in 09 now I got to wait another year, so disappointed I cant believe it O well I only ride Yam's so looks like I will just have to ride old yella for another year :lame:

  • TMAC25

Posted September 26, 2008 - 10:34 PM

#28

O and a comment for the guy above that power switch on the handle bars, it already exists and is called throttle control, not to be rude or stir up trouble, but I just get so tired of people complaining about too much power, flywheel waits and de-tunning bikes and how 450's are too hard to ride in the woods. I love my 450 and would never take one ounce of power away from it.

  • TMAC25

Posted September 26, 2008 - 10:40 PM

#29

O ya and as far as the price thing goes, ya once EFI and steering stabilizers and most likely steering assist what are we going to be paying 10k for a bike, it has gotten crazy after all dont you all remember what it cost for a brand new 250 smoker what about 5 years ago this 4 stroke revolution cost riders at every level, bike cost more, aftermarket parts are more and they sure cost a heck of a lot more to fix. But dont get me wrong I love my 4 stroke and would never go back, I just could not imagine being a dad trying to support my kids racing with the skyrocketing price that it takes to be competative these days. Anyway sorry for the rants and the three post in a row and hopefully for all of us we get EFI in 2010 and it is released half way through summer or something as I cant imagine many people buying 09's as there has been little change between 06-09 I don't care what anyone says about an 08 turning better, they are just justifying the purchase of a new bike, very few of us myself included could properly never notice a difference and if we did it would minutely make us faster, kinf of like the difference between the 03 yz450 and the 05 yz450 very very very little difference and I have owned them all.

  • AnotherRedHead

Posted September 27, 2008 - 06:18 AM

#30

dude, who doesnt already own a laptop nowadays? Maybe my 80 year old grandma.....

Nicer stuff=more money. I dunno why some ppl always choose to whine about it.

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  • _JoNeS_

Posted September 27, 2008 - 02:03 PM

#31

I might be wrong but surely you don't have to 'tune' it anyway, I'm sure it will be fine out of the factory, can't imagine their being many people fast enough to justify tuning a FI450 for more speed. Having recently spent quite a bit on my 06 I don't plan on selling it anytime soon and when I do, hopefully any problems which are to arrise with these Fuel Injection systems (if there are any) will all be ironed out.

  • PolskaSax

Posted September 27, 2008 - 04:55 PM

#32

Just remember the worlds supposed to end in 2012 so at most wait until 2011...

  • Roll Cage

Posted September 29, 2008 - 01:50 PM

#33

As we gawk at 50 hp numbers from 450cc's, motogp bikes are constantly pushing the 250rwhp mark at 800cc's. With the right design and the right software the possibilities are endless. 100HP 450s are only a engineers pencil away.


This, and a lot of testing. :lame:

When it comes to performance, with these two things, I'm pretty sure anything can happen. Within the boundaries of physics anyway.

But, who needs physics? :bonk:

-iRock

  • aggiemoto99

Posted September 29, 2008 - 03:10 PM

#34

I don't think is possible out of a single cylinder 450....the piston is too big and thus heavy for the revs necessary to make the power.....

I was running some numbers in my head the other day while bored though, and assumeing a national 250f (think PC) makes 43hp to the wheel, multiply that by 4 and get 172. That's what a street bike with a pipe and good tune makes. I think that's pretty darn good idea at how awesome street bikes are (they don't have half the durability requirements of national motor Im sure)

  • grayracer513

Posted September 29, 2008 - 04:31 PM

#35

I don't think is possible out of a single cylinder 450....the piston is too big and thus heavy for the revs necessary to make the power....

That's the same thing they said in 1954, when Norton proposed to extract 45+ hp out of a 500cc single for road racing in the Norton Manx, and the same thing they said when Ducati proposed to go road racing against two strokes with a 900cc V-twin, and the same thing they said when Yamaha proposed to build a 400cc 4-stroke MX bike and win with it. If you had told me in 1970, when I was riding a heavily modified 500cc BSA Goldstar at the Ascot park half mile, that there would someday be a 235 pound dirt bike with 12" of suspension travel that would reliably produce 50 real horsepower by turning the engine over 10,000 RPM, what do you suppose my response would have been?

  • ProjectDIRT

Posted September 29, 2008 - 10:03 PM

#36

you dont need to realy rev a bike out to make power either. power isnt found by letting it rev longer.

  • Ga450owner

Posted September 30, 2008 - 06:47 AM

#37

dude, who doesnt already own a laptop nowadays? Maybe my 80 year old grandma.....

Nicer stuff=more money. I dunno why some ppl always choose to whine about it.


yea I have 3 laptops so what?......I know of many families racing that do not own 1. :lame:

I whine because $$$ does not grow on trees and after yesterdays market loss 770pts....it looks bleak for anyone to throw 10k away on a friggin dirt bike......unless you are a lottery winner or child of a wealthy parent:foul:

  • diegox450

Posted March 20, 2009 - 09:54 AM

#38

you dont need to realy rev a bike out to make power either. power isnt found by letting it rev longer.


The only way to get more power, is getting more mixture into the engine... You can only achieve this by:

1. More displacement
2. More revs
3. Some kind of supercharging (I've seen a turbo kit for the RMZ450, but I can't remember the URL)
4. Better volumetric efficiency (I think they're way up than 100%)

So, I believe that the way is more revs.... wich is limited by piston weight and top end inertias....

Greetings

  • grayracer513

Posted March 20, 2009 - 10:14 AM

#39

The only way to get more power, is getting more mixture into the engine... You can only achieve this by:

1. More displacement
2. More revs
3. Some kind of supercharging (I've seen a turbo kit for the RMZ450, but I can't remember the URL)
4. Better volumetric efficiency (I think they're way up than 100%)

So, I believe that the way is more revs.... wich is limited by piston weight and top end inertias....

Greetings

You do have a point. Horsepower is a simple equation: (Torque X RPM)/5252

Increasing the rpm at which torque is produced is the only really practical way to increase power when limited to normal aspiration and any given engine displacement. That's how Ducati originally approached it when the first decided they were going to fight back against the two strokes, and that what Formula one has done, too.

  • LEMMON1

Posted March 20, 2009 - 02:11 PM

#40

Well I am torn on this......why? I hate to be the realist....but

I want a EFI new Yami to come out, but based on the Honda and Kawi the cost are going up and both will need a laptop for tuning. Yes this is wizbang cool, I agree. But now this means you will be spending about 10k for a 2010 bike and a laptop to support it, as I have been expecting for years. This will get you a stock bike -but I know most of us will add 1500 -2000k extra for suspension and aftermkt parts. Now the price is up to 12k. So now a 10k bike with a 35 -50% depreciation after 12-24mos depending on geography, in a economy that is terrible, does not bode well for anyone buying. I think ultimately this pricing for technology that will continue to rise will cause the demise to MX riding/racing for the avg family/avg rider and be bad for the sport as a whole.
So I applaud Yami sticking to a carb for 09 and keeping the cost although high, reasonable.....too bad this will not last long. And as almost every other form of racing has gotten out of hand cost wise so will MX.:)


not sure where ur getin ur numbers at, but ever year yammie's prices go up as well, and at the dealers here the efi bikes vs the carbs, they are within $500 which from what i can member from the past there wasnt much price difference before there was just carb...

prices goin up on bikes is no different then anything else people buy from cars trucks houses...etc...(for example, my 93 s10 cost 10k new, and 6 oyears ish later it cost 20k for roughly the same setup... now u think of it our bikes are costin almost twice as much in roughly the same time period) although i do disagree with the prices goin up that high as well, just means i will keep mine for that much longer and as soon as the manufacturers start seein a trend in declinin sales cause of much higher costs they will become stagnet.

this sport is expensive, regardless of the time frame...





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