JD needles vs yz450 needle


30 replies to this topic
  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:22 AM

#1

I have been running the JD jet kit in my 06 wr450. I find that they are very finicky riding in the broad range of elevations here in Mt. I think I'm going to try a YZ needle instead. The cost is relatively cheap. I looked up the needles on the parts diagrams and see there are quite a few. Does anybody know which one I should order.:thumbsup: anybody else tried both?

  • Thumper_Bloke

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:24 AM

#2

What's the engine acting like? at what throttle and rpm ?

  • beezer

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:41 AM

#3

I've always run the same year YZ needle as my bike is.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:41 AM

#4

this is what I'm running. It still seems a bit rich at the lower elevations. I was hoping a YZ needle might take a drastic change in elevation a bit better. Runs OK at higher elevations but not great.

Year: 2006
Model (400 - 426 - 450): WR450
Cam Timing (WR/YZ): WR
Main jet: 158
Pilot Jet: stock
Leak Jet: #60
Starter Jet: 65 (Stock)
Fuel screw (turns out): ZIP TY Fuel Screw 1.5 Turns Out (still tuning)
Needle Model/Clip position: JD Red / 3rd Position
Grey Wire Mod (Y/N): Y
TPS Connected (Y/N): Y
Airbox Snorkel/Lid (on or off): Off
AIS Removed (Y/N): Y
Airfilter Brand: No toil
Exhaust Brand: FMF Q4
Average Altitude: 5000_9000ft
Average Temperature: 70 - 85 F
Degree of Satisfaction (0-10): 9
Additional Mods/Comments: I have been running red #4 in cooler temps but it was still to rich. I just put in the #60 leak jet and have eliminated the initial throttle hesitation. I will probably changing the main jet depending on temp. I have done the o-ring mod too. If I don't find this set up working I will be pulling out the JD needles and go with stock from here on out. I also have a quickshot 2 on the carb

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:42 AM

#5

I've always run the same year YZ needle as my bike is.


the were 8 part numbers for the yz needle:excuseme:

  • beezer

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:44 AM

#6

They have 8 part numbers but they always tell you what the standard YZ450 is for that year.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:49 AM

#7

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13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LN-00
NEEDLE (#NFLN) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LP-00
NEEDLE (#NFLP) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-L1-00
NEEDLE (#NFLQ) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LS-00
NEEDLE (#NFLS) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LT-00
NEEDLE (#NFLT) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LU-00
NEEDLE (#NFLU) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PN-00
NEEDLE (#NFPN) AP AP 1 $10.38 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PP-00
NEEDLE (#NFPP) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-P1-00
NEEDLE (#NFPQ) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PR-00
NEEDLE (#NFPR) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PS-00
NEEDLE (#NFPS) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
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NEEDLE (#NFPT) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
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  • beezer

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:56 AM

#8

9.76 is cheap!

I bet shipping and handling is 47.50.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 08:59 AM

#9

9.76 is cheap!

I bet shipping and handling is 47.50.


probably, but I think i will have my local motorcycle shop guy order them. I'm not going into Team Bozeman. I'll cut my own balls off first:prof: Thanks Beeze. see your not that big of an *******:thumbsup:

  • erickdj

Posted July 22, 2008 - 09:26 AM

#10

I run the NFPP needle on my 07 wr, it runs wonderful from 0 to 6000ft.

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  • beezer

Posted July 22, 2008 - 09:37 AM

#11

[QUOTE][/Thanks Beeze. see your not that big of an *******QUOTE]

Yes I am. Axe anyone that knows me.

You might want to look at an 05 YZ450 needle too. The WR is always a year behind in deveolpement. The 06 YZ is a different motor (I think) then the 06 WR.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 11:09 AM

#12

[quote name='beezer'][QUOTE][/Thanks Beeze. see your not that big of an *******QUOTE]

Yes I am. Axe anyone that knows me.

You might want to look at an 05 YZ450 needle too. The WR is always a year behind in deveolpement. The 06 YZ is a different motor (I think) then the 06 WR.[/QUOTE]

Those were 05 needles. Every body knows your a softie and you just put up a front. I'd ask at the other place but I'm boycotting the password BS.

  • Fullbore4

Posted July 22, 2008 - 11:15 AM

#13

I've tried JD needles on my 06 WR450, but found what works best is the stock needle shimmed up with 2 small washers from ace hardware. My bike has all the mods plus an FMF Powercore 4 so it breathes pretty good. It runs great at 8000 feet and at 4000. Here's my setup:

YZ exhaust cam
165 main (stock)
40 pilot - 2 turns (ACV is disabled)
68 starter jet
heavy O-ring on AP linkage with Powershot AP cover, diaphram stud is ground off.
Stock leak jet (50)

It starts very easy at lower elevation but sometimes I have to kick start at 8000 ft. Other than that it runs fantastic.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 11:28 AM

#14

I've tried JD needles on my 06 WR450, but found what works best is the stock needle shimmed up with 2 small washers from ace hardware. My bike has all the mods plus an FMF Powercore 4 so it breathes pretty good. It runs great at 8000 feet and at 4000. Here's my setup:

YZ exhaust cam
165 main (stock)
40 pilot - 2 turns (ACV is disabled)
68 starter jet
heavy O-ring on AP linkage with Powershot AP cover, diaphram stud is ground off.
Stock leak jet (50)

It starts very easy at lower elevation but sometimes I have to kick start at 8000 ft. Other than that it runs fantastic.


I'm sure the JD needles work great if you ride at a pretty consistent elevation or feel like changing them for every ride depending on location. I just don't think they work very well for big changes in elevation. That's my experience. I have spent more time fussing with them and just want a good all around set up.

  • William1

Posted July 22, 2008 - 12:53 PM

#15

Hey Charles. Before you go swapping needles, take a moment and think about it. A needle simply meters fuel. Needle taper, diameter and throttle position control how mch can get in. If a given needle meters the fuel accurately at all throttle positions at a given altitude, then a change in altitude requires either a movement of the clip or a different needle.

The stock needle for a 06 YZ450 is 5TA-14916-PR-00 NEEDLE (#NFPR)

Lets say for moment, you had that needle and you found it was terrific on clip 3 where you live. If you go up in elevation causing a change in RAD (relative air density) you may then want a NFPS neelde, also on clip 3.

A pretty good calculator can be found on the Merge Racing site here:
http://www.mergeraci...m/tech/pandora/

You need to get the exact perfect jetting and other values. You plug them in and then plug in where you are riding, it will tell you the correct settings, very accurate.

Play with the calculator, get a few needles. Get it just right then the calculator will tell you what settings to change as the RAD changes.

The JD needles do work pretty good. The dual taper makes a difference esp. if you are doing slow and fast riding. Single taper Keheins really have a hard time covering the entire rpm range, but if you are always ripping, the Yami/Kehein needles will work great for you.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 22, 2008 - 02:43 PM

#16

Hey Charles. Before you go swapping needles, take a moment and think about it. A needle simply meters fuel. Needle taper, diameter and throttle position control how mch can get in. If a given needle meters the fuel accurately at all throttle positions at a given altitude, then a change in altitude requires either a movement of the clip or a different needle.

The stock needle for a 06 YZ450 is 5TA-14916-PR-00 NEEDLE (#NFPR)

Lets say for moment, you had that needle and you found it was terrific on clip 3 where you live. If you go up in elevation causing a change in RAD (relative air density) you may then want a NFPS neelde, also on clip 3.

A pretty good calculator can be found on the Merge Racing site here:
http://www.mergeraci...m/tech/pandora/

You need to get the exact perfect jetting and other values. You plug them in and then plug in where you are riding, it will tell you the correct settings, very accurate.

Play with the calculator, get a few needles. Get it just right then the calculator will tell you what settings to change as the RAD changes.

The JD needles do work pretty good. The dual taper makes a difference esp. if you are doing slow and fast riding. Single taper Keheins really have a hard time covering the entire rpm range, but if you are always ripping, the Yami/Kehein needles will work great for you.


I'm running an 06 wr and I believe the 05 YZ was a closer match:excuseme: But anyway thanks. i have been thinking about this a lot. Riding in the rockies really varies. you can go from a slow technical climb gaining a good amount of elevation that turns into an open stretch at a higher altitude. You go from slow moving and lower RPMs to "ripping " just like that. The stock needle seems to a have a more consistent flow through those elevation changes. It seems that the JD needles peeks somewhere in the elevation change. During that peek the JD needles seem to perform much better than the stock needle. (Stock wr needle has no adjustable clip positions) I admit I'm getting a little picky here. I'm just hoping that the YZ needle can have more of a plateau than the JD needles. Maybe I should just leave it and keep riding. It does run good right now. I'm either going to be running rich or lean somewhere with that much elevation change not to mention we have big temperature swings as well. Better on the rich side or lean side? my garage is at 4800 ft and I tend to ride higher elevations than that. I'm not a big fan of pulling over at 6500 ft to trail side jetting. I like a nice clean garage floor for the dropsies:busted:

  • William1

Posted July 22, 2008 - 03:23 PM

#17

The stock needle for a 05 YZ is 5TA-14916-LR-00 NEEDLE (#NFLR)

You are not going to be able to jet successfully for more than 1,000 feet elevation variation unless you do comprimising and accept marginal performance at the extremes. For example, you live at 4,000, ride to 8,000. Jet for perfection at 6,000'. The bike will be rideable. Not bad betwen 5,000' and 7,000'.
Try a FMR needle.

  • Desracer

Posted July 22, 2008 - 04:35 PM

#18

Hey Bozeman boy what are doing to your bike? Get that JD needle out and put in a 05 YZ needle with the clip one up from the center to start with. The main should be a 165 for some power you have to be missing, unless you like mini bike power. The pilot should be a 45 to a 48, with out the JD needle this really works. You can tune the starting and mid with the fuel screw as it will work with these items. Uncorked exhaust you have to add more fuel 168 main stock pipe uncorked , a YZ pipe 170 main. Just had a ride at Jefferson creek with five WR's with this setup and all ran well at Baldy. For the out of staters thats 9175ft.

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 23, 2008 - 07:04 AM

#19

Hey Bozeman boy what are doing to your bike? Get that JD needle out and put in a 05 YZ needle with the clip one up from the center to start with. The main should be a 165 for some power you have to be missing, unless you like mini bike power. The pilot should be a 45 to a 48, with out the JD needle this really works. You can tune the starting and mid with the fuel screw as it will work with these items. Uncorked exhaust you have to add more fuel 168 main stock pipe uncorked , a YZ pipe 170 main. Just had a ride at Jefferson creek with five WR's with this setup and all ran well at Baldy. For the out of staters thats 9175ft.


It seems with those main jets I will be running awfully rich even with an FMF pipe:excuseme: Maybe I will try it so I can get more than minibike power. Iz that the standard YZ needle your speaking of?

13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LR-00
NEEDLE (#NFLR) STD STD 1 $9.76
Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LN-00
NEEDLE (#NFLN) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LP-00
NEEDLE (#NFLP) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-L1-00
NEEDLE (#NFLQ) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LS-00
NEEDLE (#NFLS) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LT-00
NEEDLE (#NFLT) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-LU-00
NEEDLE (#NFLU) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PN-00
NEEDLE (#NFPN) AP AP 1 $10.38 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PP-00
NEEDLE (#NFPP) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-P1-00
NEEDLE (#NFPQ) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PR-00
NEEDLE (#NFPR) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PS-00
NEEDLE (#NFPS) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PT-00
NEEDLE (#NFPT) AP AP 1 $9.76 Add to Cart
13 SKU: 5TA-14916-PU-00
NEEDLE (#NFPU) AP AP

  • Charles De Mar

Posted July 23, 2008 - 10:56 AM

#20

Got my YZ needle coming. I have a feeling my JD needles will be up for sale:smirk: I spoke with the guys at the shop today and they also indicated some frustration with the JD needles and agreed that the YZ needle was a better option.




 
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