A Little More Light



37 replies to this topic
  • Bruce_in_Phoenix

Posted December 19, 2002 - 10:15 PM

#21

99 WR has 85 watts. If you take out the tail light the headlight works decent with the stock 65W Bulb(minimal dimming)

2000 and newer has 130ish watts, enough to power a 100watt bulb and do a good job.

My 01 with HID kit installed is phenominal. Never dims, claimed to have 5 times the light of a 55w bulb and I would say its pretty close. You cannot use it on the street, it will blind all oncoming traffic way worse than high beams.

All WR's come stock with a regulator for DC. Baja Designs sent me a new rectifier/regulator with the HID kit and you just disconnect the stocker or remove it.

Best $450 I have spent on my WR. I have at least 50 night rides in the desert at night and love it.

BTW i used it on my 99 with the wimpy coil(and no tail light) and it worked for faster stuff, if you were putting slow the battery would eventually drain and the light would flicker. Flicker is way worse than dimming, you feel like you are riding with a strobe light flashing 40 times a second.

Baja Designs can probably rewind your stator to 130W for between $90 and 120.

Go for it, we have five bikes in our group with HID. Its the only way to go fast an night.

Bruce

  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted December 20, 2002 - 06:07 AM

#22

Baja Designs can probably rewind your stator to 130W for between $90 and 120.

They don't rewind WR stators anymore. It probably can be done, but the cost of a new stator is so close to that price that it isn't cost effective to do so. And I think customers were not satisfied with the performance of the rewound stators.

  • techman

Posted December 20, 2002 - 04:26 PM

#23

Spotting one word, side, says maybe the dual HID was the side by side model, hence with wide and narrow reflectors - just like the Acerbis dual MR12 bulb setups. It would make sense, even if I still followed the explanations wrongly. Now I'm drooling with envy over guys with done and working HID rigs.

Rich and Fershy, I'm half through a full swap over of all my signalling to LEDs. I've done a lot of the design homework but not yet commited to a specific design. There's an isue of no DOT approval for using those red 1157 "bulbs" as brake lights (on road). Probably void your insurance in case of an accident. Note the warnings and disclaimers on the bulb packaging. However, street bikes run different LED tails which must have met DOT approval - bolt one on! LOL!! Not! Wrong shape, weight, style etc. My approach is to run two 1157's in the tail to compensate for their usual downfall of not enough brightness during the daytime when inside a bezel. I know I'm risking liability, but I'm an en-gun-eeer and figure I could meet the brightness pattern specs if I put my mind to it.
I've rolled the flasher thing around in my head for some time and my gotcha is I want the elegant solution where the flasher is two-terminal, not three terminal, so I can plug it right into my existing wiring. Call me lazy. Three terminal would be a piece of cake, but then I'd have to do some rewiring in my bike. Flashers are optional equipment (except at night) so most liability issues can be avoided by daytime use only. At night a proper design would be real visible, but still a bit of a legal risk. I'm willing to live dangerously on that one. My main motivation is durability, but freeing up more power for headlights, with less dimming, has it's appeal too. I'd like to lose the signal - dim the tail-signal-dim the tail dumbness, without resorting to a battery - actually, it still occurs on bikes with batteries, just to a lesser degree. My other motivation is to drop more weight off my tail assembly. Considering thermal design and durability, making good signal lights isn't just plop and go. My other design issue is controlled brightness on all those lights so I don't have to worry if I'm idling, overloaded etc - all designable with LED's, but it requires extra effort and components. It also complicates the design of the two terminal flasher. Then goodbye indestructability and reliability. By the way, those diode/resistor/LED 1157's will pulse and dim/brighten with poor main regulation, just like a regular incandescent. They just don't add as much load variation to the system.

So, does it seem like a little bit less than simple exercise now? Just dropping over the counter cosmetic or auxillary amber marker lights has a few draw backs. Same with the 1157's, though offroad their load-lessening is an obvious choice (feed them dc!!). Yeah, there's a couple of those amber markers on my workbench too. The whole thing is on my to-do list.

The whole LED thing just makes too much sense. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time. They'll be everywhere. BTW get yourself a 2x2301 coin single white LED keychain light. You'll never carry a small mag lite again. Get a model with squeeze once=on, will stay on for minute or so and self turn off, or squeeze 2nd =off. You can stick them right inside carbs, engines etc for various work.

  • Sylvain

Posted December 20, 2002 - 08:51 PM

#24

When you say :
All WR's come stock with a regulator for DC. Baja Designs sent me a new rectifier/regulator with the HID kit and you just disconnect the stocker or remove it.

Do you mean :
That the existing voltage regulator is OK if connected to a rectifier and then to the battery ? :D
Or
That it is not OK and even if connected to a rectifier it will not work ? :)

My bike is in the basement for the winter and I just finished installing a homemade light kit. I didn't do the stator mod yet because the bike is brand new and I don't like the risk of messing it up. :D That's why I'm gathering all the infos I can get before I pull the flywheel and cut any wires.

I inserted a 1.2 Amp battery in the air box that powers only the horn and the relay for the turn signals. I kept the original AC wiring for the lights. I replaced the standard headlight plug with a hi-lo beam model. A hydraulic rear brake switch taps into the blue wire going to the rear tail light.

I wired the positive side of the battery to the components, (horn and relay) and the ground to the frame. I was thinking of grounding the relay and the horn back to the battery to separate the battery circuit from the AC cct. But I had to put the ground to the frame to operate the horn from the push button of the handlebar switch assly.

Do you believe that there will be problems running my system as described (except for the dimming at idle)? Even considering the low demands of the turn signals and the horn that are grounded to the frame?

If I get into serious night riding I'll do all the necessary mods, but as it is, I want to keep it as simple as possible. My main concern is that I don't want to destroy anything :D

Thanks for all your inputs :D

Merry Christmas

:D :D

  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted December 21, 2002 - 12:30 PM

#25

Sylvain,

I know you were asking Bruce in Phoenix these questions, but I had to chime in. All WRs DO NOT come stock with a regulator for DC. They come with an AC regulator. As Bruce said, he put on a Baja Designs (BD) regulator/rectifier and ran the HID lights and other stuff from that. The rectifier converts the AC to DC. If you connect the existing voltage regulator, as is, to the battery, it will not work. I don't know what will actually happen, but the results will not be satisfactory. It will probably fry the battery pretty quickly.

Regarding the stator modification (aka "floating the ground"): If you use the BD regulator/rectifier, you have to modify the stator so it will work properly. It's designed to be used that way. But if you want to add a separate rectifier, you do not have to modify the stator. A rectifier will have four connections: 2 inputs and two outputs. Connect the two wires coming out of the regulator and connect them to the inputs on the rectifier. The two outputs on the rectifier will be positive and negative DC. Connect those two wires to the battery and then connect all your lights, horn, turn signals, etc. to the battery circuit. Do not ground them to the frame. That will isolate the AC current from the DC current, effectively floating the ground and allowing the system to work without AC/DC interference.

  • Sylvain

Posted December 21, 2002 - 02:39 PM

#26

Thanks for your input Rich,

Here I go again, if I got it right :D.

The voltage regulator on the wr puts out AC.

I connect the existing voltage regulator output to the two inputs of the rectifier. Doesn't matter which output of the regulator connect to the rectifier.(?)

I connect the two outputs of the rectifier +DC and -DC to the battery terminals + and - .

The battery negative side was connected to the ground, so I disconnect it and leave only the connection to the negative output of the rectifier.

The positive side of the turn signals are wired together and the minus side connected to the frame. I have to ground it back to the battery.

My lights take the AC coming out of the main hanbdlebar switch. I have to rewire DC from the battery to the light.

Can I reroute the AC current coming from the main handlebar switch to the rectifier I want to install in order to bobtain my DC source ?

But when you say not to ground the components to the frame, concerning the horn, My handlebar switch operates in a way that to hear the horn ,I push the horn button thus establishing contact to the ground on the handlebar. Is this OK. Is there an another way ?

Last question, after reading about floating the ground, it seems to me that a person who doesn't want to play with the stator winding of his bike, can effectively achieve the same floating effect of the ground by inserting a rectifier between the existing AC voltage regulator and a battery ?

They say that confusion is the start of comprehension :D :) :D
Thanks again

Best wishes :D :D

  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted December 21, 2002 - 03:47 PM

#27

The voltage regulator on the wr puts out AC.
Right

I connect the existing voltage regulator output to the two inputs of the rectifier. Doesn't matter which output of the regulator connect to the rectifier.(?)
Right. Each of the two wires coming out of the regulator alternate + and -, so it doesn't matter which is which.

I connect the two outputs of the rectifier +DC and -DC to the battery terminals + and - .
Right. The battery will be connected in parallel (as opposed to in series). With the bike running, you should be able to unplug the battery from the circuit and everything would still work.

The battery negative side was connected to the ground, so I disconnect it and leave only the connection to the negative output of the rectifier. The positive side of the turn signals are wired together and the minus side connected to the frame. I have to ground it back to the battery.
Right. Connect all the ground connections for all your components to the negative battery terminal.

My lights take the AC coming out of the main hanbdlebar switch. I have to rewire DC from the battery to the light. Can I reroute the AC current coming from the main handlebar switch to the rectifier I want to install in order to obtain my DC source ?
You could do that but why would you want to? Once you have a single DC source coming from the battery, connect all of the lights (through the light switch) to that. You will have to get some extra wires to fabricate a wire loom, but it will only take a few feet of wires to to this, depending on where you put the battery.

But when you say not to ground the components to the frame, concerning the horn, My handlebar switch operates in a way that to hear the horn ,I push the horn button thus establishing contact to the ground on the handlebar. Is this OK. Is there an another way?
You will need to disconnect the frame ground for both the horn and the switch. I used a standard kill switch for a while for my horn button. Keep in mind that all a horn switch does is complete the circuit. There are many ways to do this. I did a small wiring diagram here: Simplified wiring diagram that maye be able to give you some ideas.

Last question, after reading about floating the ground, it seems to me that a person who doesn't want to play with the stator winding of his bike, can effectively achieve the same floating effect of the ground by inserting a rectifier between the existing AC voltage regulator and a battery ?
...and connecting all the ground wires to the negative terminal of the battery.

  • Sylvain

Posted December 22, 2002 - 12:07 AM

#28

I see that I still have some work to do to have a proper kit. And thanks to you, I think I'll finally get it right.

The battery is inserted in the air box, and as you said I'll make a single DC source from the battery connected to the main light switch.

I got a used yamaha handlebar 3 function switch, hi-lo, turn signals, and horn. It's a nice aluminium cast unit that is perfect for the job. (It didn't cost me an arm either).

When you say
You will need to disconnect the frame ground for both the horn and the switch. .
I understand that the existing horn button will be useless because it grounds to the frame, and will be replaced by a standard push button.
Can this horn switch be used as the kill switch since it grounds to the frame ? It would be nice to keep all the functions of the handlebar switch assly.

Thanks

  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted December 22, 2002 - 09:12 AM

#29

Can this horn switch be used as the kill switch since it grounds to the frame ? It would be nice to keep all the functions of the handlebar switch assly.

I think you should be able to use the horn switch as the kill switch. The ignition coil, which is separate from the lighting coil, does ground to the frame. However, on my bike, because I have a BD kit, the kill switch is just another push button with two wires coming out of it. I'm pretty sure that at some point in the circuit it does ground to the frame. There's one way to tell if it would work: hook it up and see if pushing the button shuts the bike off.

I got a used yamaha handlebar 3 function switch, hi-lo, turn signals, and horn. It's a nice aluminium cast unit that is perfect for the job. (It didn't cost me an arm either).

That's cool. I had to replace the BD switch assy. after about a year. It basically just fell apart. :) For a little while, I was using a set of push buttons for everything but the headlights and a 3-way (center-off) toggle switch for the headlights. There were switches just about anywhere I could fit one on the bars. I finally went on ebay and bought an old used handlebar switch (hi-lo, turn signal and horn) from a 1985 Honda sportbike for about $10. It's not the best looking thing but it does work. What you have sounds pretty nice.

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  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted December 22, 2002 - 09:18 AM

#30

There's one thing I didn't mention to you guys about adding a rectifier. Get the highest-capacity one you can find (50 amps would be nice). They are pretty small (about 1" square), so they get very hot. You must connect the rectifier to a heat sink to keep it from overheating. A buddy of mine (without whom I wouldn't know any of this stuff) built his Dual Sport kit from scratch. Here's a picture of his airbox: airbox. That thing in the middle of the picture with all the little tongs sticking out of it is the heat sink for the rectifier.

  • techman

Posted December 22, 2002 - 10:56 AM

#31

Hi Jim. Long time no type, hope all is well with you and best of the season to you. Check out Rich's link to "airbox" and Jerry's stuff. This is stuff after my own heart. Kudos to the engineering spirit. Rich, is hi/lo w blue dot mandatory in Florida? Same on battery? Also, would those two tubes inder the seat be carb vents? Sylvain, Rich is on the money with all his electrical advice, if you had any doubts.

Best wishes to all.

  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted December 22, 2002 - 12:02 PM

#32

techman, those tubes go to the radiator overflow tank. But, after Jerry (the guy whose bike that is) and I did a couple of deep water rides, I was finally able to convince him to route the two upper carb vent hoses into the airbox like I did on my bike. We were doing a ride that had us in water up to the midpoint on the gas tank in some places and my bike was the only one out of five that didn't stall when we got into water that deep.

Florida requires a hi/low beam headlight with a high beam indicator, horn, a mirror, a brake light on at least the rear brake and a license plate light. I'm using a blue LED for my high beam indicator and a white LED for the license plate light and they both work great. I got both LEDs from Radio Shack. (Got those ideas from Jerry, too.) I not sure if a battery is mandatory. But the battery sure does come in handy for powering our GPSs.

  • Sylvain

Posted December 22, 2002 - 04:23 PM

#33

Rich,
From earlier memos you had posted, I knew about the heat sink for the rectifier. Regarding the amp capacity, considering, that I keep the stock headlight (for now), I had the load calculated by electro boy, (smart kid with high electronic knowledge and pimples :)), and he gave me a 35 Amp capacity rectifier with a heat sink that is twice the size of the rectifier itself ! It should still fit in the air boxe. It sure is getting tight in this area. But I'll go back and see if he can come up with a 50 amps unit anyway !!

Thanks for the picture, timing is great :D

  • Sylvain

Posted December 22, 2002 - 04:54 PM

#34

Hello Techman, about :
Sylvain, Rich is on the money with all his electrical advice, if you had any doubts

I have spent a lot of time searching knowledgeable advice on the net on this particular subject of electricals for wr's, and to be honest, Rich is the best. :D

I'm sure he must be a good source of infos for other things, I'll have to ask him about wife/husband relationships. :D , but that's in another forum :)

I'll get back to you soon

Greetings

  • The_Missile

Posted June 01, 2006 - 06:12 AM

#35

Good grief I cant believe ist been over 3 years since I asked about the DC conversion for my Wr400. Thos with 426's and 450's I heard that snigger. Anyway, waaaaaay back then, I didn't have the nerve to start monkeying with the electrics, and I dont ride often enough for it to be a PITA, until I got my GPS. The thing eats batteries and shorts out due to vibration. So now I really need the DC conversion. Came back to TT and....waaalaaa..... all the data is still there and Rich in Orlando is definately still the man. Will be DC'd by weekend. Thanks to Rich, TT, and its good to be back !!

The Missile

  • The_Missile

Posted June 12, 2006 - 12:32 AM

#36

Grrrrrrr Baja Designs......this weekend I lost about 4 hours because their g&%"+*m regulator/rectifier had a short circuit.....grounding through the body of the rectifier to the frame, thus NOT floating the ground with the result that output was steady 12V DC but the lights would barely even warm up. What the....... Needless to say I am no electrical expert and needed help to find the issue after innumerable tests of my own.

Still reasonably happy with my own performance; apart from their stupid product I had it all wired perfectly. Mounting the darn thing on a rubber pad & zip tie allowed me to finally float the ground and now it works "sans problem".

Thanks again to Rich and his simplified wiring diagram and also his web site....a gem.

Missile

  • creeky

Posted June 12, 2006 - 02:56 AM

#37

About batteries....I am having excellent service with nimh batteries from www.batteryspace.com click on "robot batteries" and check out the 12V packs. I have one on my '00XR250 and one on my '00WR400. I am using the stock stators and the batteries provide enough ballast to keep the lights from dimming at idle or when the turn or brake lights are on. This site www.procycle.us/main/dskit.htm has electrical components that are good quality and reasonably priced.

  • velodilemma

Posted November 22, 2006 - 05:32 AM

#38

We have been riding in New England twice a week this Fall and it gets dark at 4:30 now. We are all running http://www.bikelight...liion_ultra.htm

We just velcro the head unit to the chin of the helmet. the light these uniots produce is awesome.




 
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