Mineral oil Vs Synthetic oil


14 replies to this topic
  • Jim813

Posted July 08, 2008 - 09:19 AM

#1

I know that there have been countless threads on which oil to use, but I dont think this has been brought up. I've read that in a coulpe MXA magazines( including August 08, which includes 60 inside secrets to the 2008 yz460f) that they prefer mineral oil in this yami to make the clutch last longer. Here is the exact quote:

"Even though synthetic motor oil is better for the overall package, we think that the clutch will last longer with mineral oil. The semi-synthetics and synthetics seem to shorten clutch life.Mineral oil is cheaper, so change it more often"

What does everyone think about this?

I am running Amsoil synthetic motorcycle 10w-40 with 6.0 hours on my 08 450, just to point that out.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2008 - 09:54 AM

#2

There is no science to the comment, but they can prefer anything they want. There is an enormous lack of understanding regarding synthetic oils, and what they are or are not.

Synthetics, in general, have no affect on clutch life or operation at all. An oil is not slipperier or less so simply because it is synthetic.

Petroleum oil is refined from crude oil. This means that the process is at least 70 percent a matter of removing stuff that is not wanted. This include tars, volatile solvents, dirt, ash, etc. As with any such process, only most of the bad stuff is removed. After that, additives are included to achieve specific behaviors.

Synthetics are created from the ground up, and if the blender doesn't want a certain ingredient, he simply never puts any in; there's no need to take anything out.

The base oils in either type are either extremely similar, or actually identical, to each other. Part of the myth of synthetics being bad for clutches comes from the fact that "energy conserving", "low friction", and "friction modified" oils do have the capability to cause clutch trouble in some cases, and because petroleum oils can't meet API ECII standards, all such oils are synthetic. The twist in the logic is that that somehow means all synthetics are EC II oils, and they simply are not.

Synthetics do have an increased ability to resist heat, oxidization, acids, fuel contamination, and often have a higher viscosity index (they behave like multigrade oils with fewer additives). They do not lube better under normal circumstances, are not more likely to cause clutches to slip or wear out, and will not keep rings from seating.

Keep using your Amsoil. It is one of the best choices you could make for a YZF.

  • BBrown626

Posted July 08, 2008 - 12:47 PM

#3

I have been running full and part synthetic for nearly 3 years. After a couple hundred hours the clutch plates are still in spec and not slipping.

  • rickallen124

Posted July 08, 2008 - 02:13 PM

#4

MXA also said to change the oil every 8hrs which I think is too long between oil changes. I think the oil should be changed every 4-6hrs depending on how hard you ride. What is your opinion Grayracer?

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2008 - 02:27 PM

#5

It depends on the oil chosen for the job. To repeat once again the major source of concern in using a typical engine oil in a YZF, the issue is that by far most of them will not hold up to use as a transmission oil.

Popular oils like Rotella should be changed after each day of riding. They simply cannot retain their viscosity when employed as a gear lube

I have run tests on Amsoil MCF out to about 11 hours and had it come back still in grade (that is, still a 40 weight at 200 degrees). I don't run mine that long, normally. I usually change every third ride day, and that is almost always less than 9 hours. If you have an oil that you or a lab has shown to be able to stand being a gear lube, 4-8 hours on a change should be OK, and it really isn't that expensive to buy a good oil and keep it changed when you're only swapping out a quart + at a time.

  • yamaha6j

Posted July 08, 2008 - 04:01 PM

#6

One thing you need to watch is if you run low on one brand of oil and bum another brand from a buddy. Keep the same brand in your bike as they don't like to be mixed. Even if they are both approved for your bike. I did so one day at the track and fried my clutch pretty quick.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2008 - 05:16 PM

#7

"I did A (mixed two brands of oil), and then B happened (the clutch failed), so A caused B"

There is no support for that, and it does not follow logically. Most common engine oils are 100% compatible with each other (Castor based oils are an exception), and mixing them will not cause any such problem.

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  • Slinkyman16

Posted July 08, 2008 - 08:19 PM

#8

when it comes to oil grey knows his stuff.. he has cleared up alot of things about oil and whats what..

  • yamaha6j

Posted July 09, 2008 - 08:37 AM

#9

I'm no oil expert however I'm just stating a fact that happend to me. That was the first time I had blended to oils together in my yz. I was using the Amsoil product and mixed it with my friends Honda 4 stroke oil. Then about 5 min in my ride my clutch started to slip. Maybe it was just it's time.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 09, 2008 - 08:45 AM

#10

Maybe it was just it's time.

Far more likely.

  • yamaha racing 230

Posted July 09, 2008 - 08:58 AM

#11

I'm no oil expert however I'm just stating a fact that happend to me. That was the first time I had blended to oils together in my yz. I was using the Amsoil product and mixed it with my friends Honda 4 stroke oil. Then about 5 min in my ride my clutch started to slip. Maybe it was just it's time.



was it the hp4 in a silver bottle that had moly cuz that will fry a cluch

  • grayracer513

Posted July 09, 2008 - 09:18 AM

#12

was it the hp4 in a silver bottle that had moly cuz that will fry a cluch

That could have been the problem. HP4 comes in both MA and MB blends. MA is certified for wet clutches, MB is for engines only, and it says so on the label. It is a highly friction modified oil, and if that was the case, it was a simple matter of using the wrong oil, not mixing the two.

  • yamaha6j

Posted July 11, 2008 - 03:55 AM

#13

In a pinch not really looking at labels and taking my friends oil at the track. I would say more than likely that is what happend to it. I thought the bottle was black not sliver as suspected. Anyway's that's a good point to remember.

  • earl69

Posted July 12, 2008 - 08:32 AM

#14

Since your talking about clutches I have a couple of questions for you.

I ride a YZ and a buddy of mine bought an 07 WR. He also bought "BG" oil additive thinking it would increase his engine life. I think BG is the name of it.
In my YZ manual it specifically states not to add any oil additives to it. Is it the same for the WR?

I currently run Amsoil synthetic 10-40 but came across a couple quarts of Amsoil synthetic 20-50. I was thinking of running the 20-50 when it gets real hot around here, any problems switching between the two?

As always thanks.

earl

  • grayracer513

Posted July 12, 2008 - 08:56 AM

#15

I ride a YZ and a buddy of mine bought an 07 WR. He also bought "BG" oil additive thinking it would increase his engine life. I think BG is the name of it.
In my YZ manual it specifically states not to add any oil additives to it. Is it the same for the WR?

I currently run Amsoil synthetic 10-40 but came across a couple quarts of Amsoil synthetic 20-50. I was thinking of running the 20-50 when it gets real hot around here, any problems switching between the two?

Yes, it's the same. There's nothing in the BG that the engine needs that isn't already in the Amsoil, and there could well be something you don't want.

There's no problem switching between any two oils. Just be sure you are using the Amsoil motorcycle oils (MCF and MCV).





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