To cut a long story short a local dealer told me that semi synthetic oil is better than fully synthetic for my Yamaha wr450f 2007. I have always used fully synthetic before and had no problems. Any of you guys know the difference??
Cheers.
Fully synthetic vs Semi synthetic??
Started by carrzysafc, Jul 07 2008 02:45 AM
24 replies to this topic
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:45 AM
To cut a long story short a local dealer told me that semi synthetic oil is better than fully synthetic for my Yamaha wr450f 2007. I have always used fully synthetic before and had no problems. Any of you guys know the difference??
Cheers.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:33 AM
i have always used semi or dino for break in and then full synthetic afterwords. i have been told that semi or dino oil helps things seat in a little better than full but then full protects better after everything has worn in properly. not sure how true this is but it has worked well for me.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:40 AM
Semi will be cheaper, but "better"...no!
Semi is a mixture of petroleum oil and synthetic. The one and only advantage that petroleum oil has is that it has very small molecules that contribute to its "lubricity" (small molecules fit into little pits on the metal surface more easily). Trouble is, when things get hot, these little molecules are the first thing to burn up and turn to sludge!
One school of thought says that you should be changing your oil very frequently anyway, so the petroleum part of the semi oil doesn't really have time to deteriorate significantly...so you save a little money. For me, I run the best ester based synthetic I can find (Redline, Maxima, Motul), and still change it as frequently as necessary.
Do you know there are 3 different types of synthetic...and they are each very different? If your synthetic (or the synthetic part of your blend) isn't ester, you aren't getting the best!
Semi is a mixture of petroleum oil and synthetic. The one and only advantage that petroleum oil has is that it has very small molecules that contribute to its "lubricity" (small molecules fit into little pits on the metal surface more easily). Trouble is, when things get hot, these little molecules are the first thing to burn up and turn to sludge!
One school of thought says that you should be changing your oil very frequently anyway, so the petroleum part of the semi oil doesn't really have time to deteriorate significantly...so you save a little money. For me, I run the best ester based synthetic I can find (Redline, Maxima, Motul), and still change it as frequently as necessary.
Do you know there are 3 different types of synthetic...and they are each very different? If your synthetic (or the synthetic part of your blend) isn't ester, you aren't getting the best!
Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:48 AM
Gibbs450x said:
i have always used semi or dino for break in and then full synthetic afterwords. i have been told that semi or dino oil helps things seat in a little better than full but then full protects better after everything has worn in properly. not sure how true this is but it has worked well for me.
Conventional wisdom says to run pure petroleum during break-in, then you can switch to semi or full synth after that. I do notce that Honda's HP4 (a petroleum/synth blend), says it is ok for break-in on the bottle.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:10 AM
good oil is clean oil.. it really dosnt matter what u use as long as you keep it clean.. since the oil on our yamis are shared with the gearbox and clutch, it will become contaminated way before oil is broken down..
with that said.. i only run amsoil in my bike.. look at greyracers oil breakdown for the results.. you can serach it in the yz400/426/450 fourm
with that said.. i only run amsoil in my bike.. look at greyracers oil breakdown for the results.. you can serach it in the yz400/426/450 fourm
Posted 07 July 2008 - 10:23 AM
I use the Amsoil full syn. motorcycle oil and it works great. We bought 2 cases of it for all the bikes.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:04 AM
I used to use fully sytnetic syntec 4 10w40. The dealer advised to use semi sythetic so i will try yamalube 10w40. I always chage my oil every couple of rides anyway so i hope i have no problems. Cheers.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:01 AM
carrzysafc said:
I used to use fully sytnetic syntec 4 10w40. The dealer advised to use semi sythetic so i will try yamalube 10w40. I always chage my oil every couple of rides anyway so i hope i have no problems. Cheers.
Ah, the wise and all knowing dealer......
Funny, Yamalube synthetic blend, doesn't come in 10W40! http://www.yamaha-mo...t/yamalube.aspx
What bothers me about Yamalube, is that none of their literature says that their oils are API SG. SG insures you that you are at least getting a descent amount of anti-wear additives. The reason this is an issue, is that lots of street bikes now have cat converters, and the anti-wear additives may have gotten downgraded because they poison cat converters...not a good thing! There are better oils out there than Yamalube anyway, so I would look elsewhere.....
Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:05 AM
OK, I now see you are in England, and Yamalube may market different oil over there....so there might be a 10W40 blend (????).
Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:06 AM
Here comes a bonk or bad gas for me .............
I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:
The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.
I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:
The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:32 AM
shrubitup said:
Here comes a bonk or bad gas for me .............
I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:
The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.
I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:
The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.
The theory on why energy conserving car oil is bad for wet clutches is that it ruins the fiber plates in your clutch. It has nothing to do with missed shifts or metal on your magnetic drain plug.
As to Shell Rotella, it may be inexpensive, but it is a very good oil.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 12:49 PM
shrubitup said:
Here comes a bonk or bad gas for me .............
I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:
I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:
A little reading on the subject: http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm
If the oil dates to the early 90's, that was before the government stepped in and decided that we all needed reduces levels of zinc and phosphorous (ZDDP, an anti-wear additive) in our car oils! To replace the ZDDP, they dumped in a bunch of friction modifiers instead, that may make a wet clutch slip.
So, you lucked out finding oil that is that old!!! But, I would also guess it is dumb luck.....better sell it on e-bay!
Posted 08 July 2008 - 12:53 PM
CBus660R said:
As to Shell Rotella, it may be inexpensive, but it is a very good oil.
Again, the government has stepped in recently and decided that diesel oils also need reduced levels of ZDDP....so diesel oils have now been reformulated, just like car oils were in the early 90's!
The old Rotella had descent ZDDP levels, but don't count on that today....
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:02 PM
shrubitup said:
The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.
Rotella is not a "cheapie" oil... it may be inexpensive, but has a hell of an additive package. Quaker state is cheapie!!! ;)
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:03 PM
shrubitup said:
The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.
Rotella is not a "cheapie" oil... it may be inexpensive, but has a hell of an additive package. Quaker state is cheapie!!! ;)
EDIT
As for reconranger... :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:07 PM
reconranger said:
A little reading on the subject: http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm
Nice article but it doesn't pertain to a two stroke IMO. I run a two stroke and put the car oil in for the transmission/clutch only. I may have erred when I said wet clutch but I meant separate lubrication for the clutch and then lubrication for the crank coming from my pre mix oil. Clutch and crank aren't together on a smoker.:applause:
IMO Rotella is cheapie based on cost only. I agree that it is a great oil to use.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:18 PM
shrubitup said:
Nice article but it doesn't pertain to a two stroke IMO. I run a two stroke and put the car oil in for the transmission/clutch only. I may have erred when I said wet clutch but I meant separate lubrication for the clutch and then lubrication for the crank coming from my pre mix oil. Clutch and crank aren't together on a smoker.:applause:
Where you been? There are thousands of Honda 450/250/150's, TRX450R's, and now KTM 4-strokes out there that have the engine and transmission oils seperated.....just like a 2-stroke. You missed that in the article??? There isn't any difference between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke tranny, although the majority of 4-strokes (unfortunately) do share the same oil between the engine and trans.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:30 PM
reconranger said:
Where you been? There are thousands of Honda 450/250/150's, TRX450R's, and now KTM 4-strokes out there that have the engine and transmission oils seperated.....just like a 2-stroke. You missed that in the article??? There isn't any difference between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke tranny, although the majority of 4-strokes (unfortunately) do share the same oil between the engine and trans.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:35 PM
reconranger said:
Where you been? There are thousands of Honda 450/250/150's, TRX450R's, and now KTM 4-strokes out there that have the engine and transmission oils seperated.....just like a 2-stroke. You missed that in the article??? There isn't any difference between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke tranny, although the majority of 4-strokes (unfortunately) do share the same oil between the engine and trans.
DUDE... Why are you so passionate about arguing about oil. You are always arguing in these oil threads, it gets annoying. Makes me think you are either a chemical engineer, or you work for amsoil.
Seriously, run what you like, and let people run what they like... DONE :excuseme:
Posted 09 July 2008 - 01:31 AM
reconranger said:
OK, I now see you are in England, and Yamalube may market different oil over there....so there might be a 10W40 blend (????).
Yeah, i am from across the pond! When i change my oil next i will try the Yamalube and post the results.
Cheers for all the great info!
