EKN needle



24 replies to this topic
  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 07, 2001 - 04:07 AM

#1

I am now using the EKN needle in my 00wr after reading james's post on needle comparisons and have found it works realy well. Today we did my mates 00wr, same bike, same mods,same jetting everything but his bike now has a bad splutter/miss at full throttle and is not quite as responsive as mine. We tried larger/smaller main jets and clip positions,checked timing/spark plug/fuel flow&contamination/compression all OK but can't get it right at WOT. I can't work it out! Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,

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Andrew
"00"WR400

  • James_Dean

Posted February 07, 2001 - 02:43 PM

#2

What jetting are you using?

pilot, screw, clip,main.

Air box cover off?

Same exhaust?

Clean the air filter?

Try a new plug?

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 07, 2001 - 08:18 PM

#3

JAMES,
EKN#3,#168main,#45pilot,#100air, 1 3/4turns out,open air box,open s/s header&silencer,clean filter and fresh plugs. This set up works excelent on my bike but not johns, after more experimentation thismorning we went to a #178 main and fresh plug the first run was excelent hauled ass at WOT, turned around and opend it up again got to about1/2 throttle in 3rd and power died again.It seems like it needs the richer main but is then to rich in the low to mid throttle fouling the plug enough to prevent a good spark at the leaner WOT.I am thinking about going back to a #42pilot,back off the pilot screw 1/2-1/4 turn,drop the needle to clip #1 and maybe a #175main, would this be too lean in the lower throttle with the EKN, Am I on the right track if not let me know.Thanks mate,

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Andrew
"00"WR400

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 08, 2001 - 03:56 PM

#4

OK, I've lost my #175main & I don't have a #172 so we had to use a #170 i turned back the pilot screw to 1 1/4 turns out left in the #45 pilotjet & droped the needle down to #2 clip pos, the bike felt more responsive from closed to 3/4 but was still missing at WOT, then droped the needle down to #1 clip pos, was not quite as responsive from 1/4 to 3/4 throttle but reved hard at WOT, maybe a #172 will work better? Spark plug at these settings is a dark tan so jetting is almost right. What needle would be the same as EKN#0 if it had one? Or EKN#1 1/2 ?
All/any feedback is much apreciated,thankyou.


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Andrew
"00"WR400

[This message has been edited by Andrew in OZ (edited 02-08-2001).]

  • James_Dean

Posted February 08, 2001 - 05:34 PM

#5

The needle clip should not have an affect at full throttle with this needle. The main jet is what you should use for full throttle jetting.

The top clip should be too far lean at 1/4-1/2 throttle. This REALLY sounds like something else has a problem other than normal settings.

Has the nozzle come loose in the carb?? The nozzle can sometimes loosen and lower when pulling out the main jet. Is there any possibility it is resting lower? Inspect things carefully. make sure the main air jet is not clogged.

A leaner needle option is EVN, but look elsewhere first. Go back to stock jetting if you must.

James

[This message has been edited by James Dean (edited 02-08-2001).]

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 10, 2001 - 02:05 AM

#6

JAMES,
Totaly cleaned the carb, blew out all jets & passages checked needle&seat and float level, installed Ekn#3,#170main,#45pilot#100air,1 1/2 turns out and went for a ride, it started 2nd kick no choke or priming, there is a slight power drop around 1/8-1/4 throttle,from 1/4-3/4 is reasonably good(felt stronger&more responsive before in #2clip pos) from 3/4 to WOT is still stumbling?/missing it is more noticeable in the lower gears, 3rd gets to 110km/h, 4th 130km/h then it feels like it's run out of fuel 5th is good till aprox 145km/h then power drops off, speed still picks up but very slowly to around 160km/h, when stock with only exhaust mods it did around 165km/h. so we put the #178 back in and no other changes, there did not seem to be any difference in performance but out the exhaust and around the spark plug was a lot more carbon, the insulator? was dark tan but not black, this indicates to me that the #178 may be too big. I also noticed that at idle the pilot screw had no efect until it was turned out aprox 2 1/2 turns, should'nt it stall when turned all the way in? should i change pilot jet to a #42 or #48?I think #2clip pos is the best mid range it's had would this be OK not too lean? Should he get the ignition system checked for the WOT miss? THANKS FOR YOUR HELP :)
P.S. what are the std jetting specs for "01"YZF should I start at these settings?
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Andrew
"00"WR400

[This message has been edited by Andrew in OZ (edited 02-10-2001).]

  • James_Dean

Posted February 10, 2001 - 12:36 PM

#7

Make sure the fuel line is not pinched and the tank vent is flowing OK. Did you check the throttle position sensor resistance? Float level set to spec?

You may still want to try a #162 or #165 main (same as YZ stock). Are you using the same air filter oil?

The #45 pilot at 1 1/2 to 2 1/4 turns is acceptable. (YZ uses #42 and EJP#4, close to EKN#4)

Considering your bikes are identical including jetting the electrical sytem is suspect. You may also want to go back to stock to confirm that the problem is still present.

Hope it gets resolved soon. :)

James

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 11, 2001 - 01:40 PM

#8

Well JAMES, after a lot of serious inspections & adjustments we have the bike working realy well but that WOT miss is still present (not as bad as it was). We cant get the bike into the auto electricians till the end of the week but after speaking to him he recons it could be the TPS or CDI over/under advancing the ignition curve, do you know if the CDI ignition curves are the same on YZ/WR.Anyway as long as he changes gear before the miss both bikes now have the same power & torque with the same jetting.
temp(30C/85F) alt(800M/2600ft)
EKN#3,#168main,#45pilot#100air,1 3/4turns. I'll let you know how we go with the sparky otherwise thanks for your time & help.

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Andrew
"00"WR400

  • Taffy

Posted February 11, 2001 - 02:11 PM

#9

my first thoughts were the main jet is too big. 168 may still be your problem, go lower. get your WOT done first with a good plug chop, then set the needle clip. in that order.

Taffy

  • James_Dean

Posted February 11, 2001 - 09:53 PM

#10

Andrew,

Your very first post said you tried a smaller main jet, what size?
Good luck getting it sorted out.

James

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  • Ben_from_London

Posted February 12, 2001 - 03:49 AM

#11

A pilot jet/fuel screw question,
when changing needles ie. from K to N, how much does it affect the fuel screw?
My carb is a FCR'98, I was running YZ timed, de-oct'd, 100 airjet, 48 pilot, 165 main, EKP-3, 2turns. I worked great but here in old Blighty the weather had taken a turn for the worse so I tried the EKN-4 1.5 turns which just stummbled and spluttered, I then went back to Clip 3 and 1.25 turns the spluttering stopped but have since fouled a plug, (the first time for 10months), It looks to me like the change from K to N is more than 1 turns on the fuel screw. Also what are the max and min amount of turns on the fuel screw? Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom.
Ben

  • AhamayWR426

Posted February 12, 2001 - 08:37 AM

#12

this may seem like a dumb question.
If you and your buddy have the same carb/bike have you swapped carbs/tps sensors? does this still cause a stumble at WOT.

  • Taffy

Posted February 12, 2001 - 12:33 PM

#13

ben

you've blagged andrew from oz's thread. slapped wrist. i've not been able to say this before because i come from 'old blighty' as well.

we are experiencing low pressure streams from western europe.

you've jetted up when the pressure went down. possibly went the wrong way!

JD is our jetting guru. he may help.

Taffy

  • James_Dean

Posted February 12, 2001 - 04:28 PM

#14

Ben,

Don't go past 1 turn on the pilot (fuel) screw using a #48 pilot jet, unless it really needs it. There is a high risk of fouling plugs. :) I think you were on the edge in both cases and it was just a matter of time. Go in 1/2 turn and give it a try.

James

  • bonez34

Posted February 12, 2001 - 06:32 PM

#15

So now we have to watch the JET STREAM too? :) geez, next you'll have me lookin up my dogs butt to check the barometer!

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 14, 2001 - 02:07 PM

#16

PROBLEM found now we got to rid the cause,I finaly tracked down the multimeter i lent another mate about 6months ago and checked out the ignition system myself and acording to the manual all was OK so we fitted a tacho(not permanantly just with Gaffa tape) and found the miss occured at 10,400rpm in every gear no matter what MJ was used, we then put the tacho on my bike held throttle wide open in every gear i found it also started to miss but not till 11,100rpm I would normaly change at about 10,800-11,000rpm so it was unnoticed,This got me thinking so I checked the archives for REV LIMITER :) :D PROBLEM FOUND !!! To rid the cause, I could not find anything in the manual or Archives about rev limiter adjustment I believe it would be done with a computer with a special program, If anyone knows how or where to get the adjustment done please let me know.

Taffy,JAMES MJ's tried were #160,#162,#165,#168,#170 & #178

AhamayWR426, swaping carbs over was actualy the first thing we tried with no afect which is why we thought the bike just needed to be jetted differently,so that cancels out the TPS, THANKS!!


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Andrew
"00"WR400

  • James_Dean

Posted February 14, 2001 - 07:46 PM

#17

Andrew,

Thanks for the update.

Getting back to your plug checks it sounded like the 172 was slightly rich. Did it not perform as well as the 168?

James

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 15, 2001 - 02:02 AM

#18

JAMES,
Plug readings were as follows #162-white, #165-very light tan,#168-medium tan,#170-dark tan with a "whisp" of black,with the #170 the miss felt smoother (did not seem to hit as hard) I think with the #168 the power is building up faster when the rev limiter cuts in making it more noticeable.We are also using shell optimax unleaded(98) which has an octane rating aprox 2 points higher than premium unleaded(95-96) / 5-6 points higher than standard unleaded(92-93),From memory it was the higher the octane the richer the fuel, If I was using premium fuel the #170 would probably be the right jet to use. Ive been looking at the VORTEX ignition does any one know of any problems or downfalls with it?, sounds like it would be the perfect match for YZ timing and "E" series needle!

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Andrew
"00"WR400

  • Clark_Mason

Posted February 15, 2001 - 09:04 PM

#19

The Vortex ignition is a great product. I was always hitting the limiter on my 99 WZ400 and after the Vortex I never hit it again unless is was specifically trying to. Under all normal riding conditions including drag racing I never hit the limiter after the switch to Vortex, I always shifted first. It will raise the rev limiter aprox 800 to 1000rpm and provide a snapper response when in the power mode and will provide excellent traction and low end grunt in the torque mode. The two curves are swichable on the fly via the supplied handlebar mounted switch. I like mine for the sw. on the fly capability depending on traction conditions.

Clark

[This message has been edited by Clark Mason (edited 02-15-2001).]

  • Andrew_in_OZ

Posted February 16, 2001 - 02:34 AM

#20

Clark,
Thanks for the info, I'll be looking for one tomorow, they should'nt be hard to find here in Australia. Have you used any of the vortex tuners tools? aparently the ETK(Engine Tuners Kit) can be used to adjust ignition curves and rev limiter on other CDI's. Hmmm... might need one in the tool box :)
Do you have any instalation or adjustment tips?
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Andrew
"00"WR400

[This message has been edited by Andrew in OZ (edited 02-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Andrew in OZ (edited 02-16-2001).]




 
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