Wheel Swap...Dirt to SM?


37 replies to this topic
  • avc8130

Posted 26 June 2008 - 07:03 PM

#1

I am strongly considering buying a WR250. I really want to be able to swap back and forth between true SM tires/wheels and true DS tires/wheels. How feasible is this?
ac

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  • Jaynen

Posted 26 June 2008 - 07:04 PM

#2

If you want to pony up the cash i dont see why it would be any different than any other SM converted bike. The X model has a larger front rotor and slightly different gearing as well as the wheels but some people are lowering the gearing of the R model anyway

  • scottmac

Posted 26 June 2008 - 07:28 PM

#3

Do the WRR and WRX share the same front brake caliper mount?

Just wondering if there might be a difference with that given the larger
diameter front rotor on the WRX????? Still it should be a fairly easy swap
if you wanted to spend the $$$.

  • derangedhermit

Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:38 PM

#4

If you want to pony up the cash i dont see why it would be any different than any other SM converted bike. The X model has a larger front rotor and slightly different gearing as well as the wheels but some people are lowering the gearing of the R model anyway

The gearing difference is that the X has a 42 tooth rear and the R has a 43. People changing rear sprockets have been adding larger rear sprockets, not smaller ones. But there's not much difference in 42 vs 43 anyway. Yamaha said it was to partly offset the different tire diameters.

WR250R to WR250X rear wheel conversion:

If you want two wheel/tire setups to swap:
Build / have built a complete 17x4.00" WR250X rear wheel, inc. sprocket of your choice & brake disk, and you are in business to quickly change rear wheels. Only issue I see is chain length. You may need two chains. All stock Yamaha parts, if you wish.

If you want to "convert" semi-permanently instead of being able to swap: it is cheaper. All you need is the WR250X rim, spokes, and tire. The hub, brakes, and the rest are the same between the two models and can be reused in the conversion. Change sprocket and chain at this time if you wish.

  • avc8130

Posted 27 June 2008 - 06:07 AM

#5

The gearing difference is that the X has a 42 tooth rear and the R has a 43. People changing rear sprockets have been adding larger rear sprockets, not smaller ones. But there's not much difference in 42 vs 43 anyway. Yamaha said it was to partly offset the different tire diameters.

WR250R to WR250X rear wheel conversion:

If you want two wheel/tire setups to swap:
Build / have built a complete 17x4.00" WR250X rear wheel, inc. sprocket of your choice & brake disk, and you are in business to quickly change rear wheels. Only issue I see is chain length. You may need two chains. All stock Yamaha parts, if you wish.

If you want to "convert" semi-permanently instead of being able to swap: it is cheaper. All you need is the WR250X rim, spokes, and tire. The hub, brakes, and the rest are the same between the two models and can be reused in the conversion. Change sprocket and chain at this time if you wish.


The rear seems easy...it is the front I am concerned with. Does the R have a different caliper mount than the X? Will the on-road rotor bolt to the off-road wheel?
ac

  • derangedhermit

Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:52 AM

#6

The rear seems easy...it is the front I am concerned with. Does the R have a different caliper mount than the X? Will the on-road rotor bolt to the off-road wheel?
ac

I would like to know for sure also, but I don't. I suspect the answers are "yes" and "no". I read text quoting a Yamaha factory guy as saying that you would need a new front caliper. But I don't know, and I hope someone else does. From what I can see from web images, the aluminum-colored parts of the mounts on the fork look identical, but the calipers are mounted at different angles and spacing. Maybe there is an adapter plate, I will try to look tonight.

How much trouble is it to disconnect and reconnect a brake line? I'm not a bike guy so the connectors look unfamiliar to me. It would best be avoided, I would think.

  • avc8130

Posted 27 June 2008 - 09:53 AM

#7

I would like to know for sure also, but I don't. I suspect the answers are "yes" and "no". I read text quoting a Yamaha factory guy as saying that you would need a new front caliper. But I don't know, and I hope someone else does. From what I can see from web images, the aluminum-colored parts of the mounts on the fork look identical, but the calipers are mounted at different angles and spacing. Maybe there is an adapter plate, I will try to look tonight.

How much trouble is it to disconnect and reconnect a brake line? I'm not a bike guy so the connectors look unfamiliar to me. It would best be avoided, I would think.


Changing calipers any time I wanted to go street to dirt would be out of the question. If it is a simple bracket that would be awesome.

ac

  • derangedhermit

Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:43 PM

#8

OK, I looked at my bike and at the service manual. The front master cylinders, the front calipers and their mounting plates, and the front hubs are different. The front rotors are different diameter and thickness. The brake pads are different, including thickness.

The casting at the end of the left fork (tine? leg?) for bolting on the caliper is the same.

It will probably take someone with access to both bikes, side by side, and more knowledge than I have, to come up with a reasonable way to quickly swap front wheels.

  • avc8130

Posted 27 June 2008 - 08:57 PM

#9

OK, I looked at my bike and at the service manual. The front master cylinders, the front calipers and their mounting plates, and the front hubs are different. The front rotors are different diameter and thickness. The brake pads are different, including thickness.

The casting at the end of the left fork (tine? leg?) for bolting on the caliper is the same.

It will probably take someone with access to both bikes, side by side, and more knowledge than I have, to come up with a reasonable way to quickly swap front wheels.


That sounded really bad at first...until you stated that the forks are the same. That should mean that if I can get the caliper over the rotor it should work. I really wish I could find both bikes!
ac

  • creamcheese

Posted 29 June 2008 - 09:45 AM

#10

If you go with a "R" front hub laced to a 17in rim,and just use the "R" front disc, it would be quite simple, if you plan on needing the larger rotor,you will have to use the OEM stock "X" rotor,since it has a different bolt patter that the "R" you will have to use a"X" front hub, the spokes on the front wheel of the "X" are all the same length,but, due to the angle of the spokes on the disc side, you will either have to use a OEM"X" 17 inch or modify a after market rim to allow the nipple angle to be a bit straighter. This angle problem is not noticable until you start to tighten the spoke,then the nipple is wanting to pull one way and the spoke is forced to bend slightly around the other spokes. If you look at the holes in the OEM "X" rim, and compare them to an after-market 17 in rim, you can see the difference. I have not done a complete check on the spacers yet,but I thing the two models may use different spacers on the fron wheels as well.
Next issue, to run the larger "X" rotor you need the bracket that moves the caliper back on the "X" . you can not buy it seperate, you have to buy the entire caliper assembly.
A few questions for Yamaha would be: Why did they use such a "whacky" front hub, when they could have just gone with the same front hub as the YZF/WR/etc.?
Why did they go with just an 18mm front axle, when the rear is the same as the "other" bikes at 20mm?
OK, maybe the "whacky" hub design looks groovy, but,why such a large bolt pattern for the disc?
Fg

  • derangedhermit

Posted 29 June 2008 - 10:45 AM

#11

A few questions for Yamaha would be: Why did they use such a "whacky" front hub, when they could have just gone with the same front hub as the YZF/WR/etc.?
Why did they go with just an 18mm front axle, when the rear is the same as the "other" bikes at 20mm?
OK, maybe the "whacky" hub design looks groovy, but,why such a large bolt pattern for the disc?

Fg

Thanks, creamcheese, great information:applause:
I can guess at the last question. I was looking at the front wheel this morning. The wheel is aluminum, the rotor steel. They probably save a pound (or some significant amount) of steel by bringing the hub out further for the larger disc.

It sounds like people with an R who want a 17" front wheel may be in good shape if they are willing to stay with the R front rotor. Then they can easily swap. :thumbsup:

It sounds like the other 3 combinations (R who wants 17" and X rotor, X who wants 21" and X rotor, and X who wants 21" and R rotor) may not find an easy or cheap solution:thumbsdn:

I'm an X who wants a 21" front. I'd rather not go to the expense of buying an R caliper assembly. But I may not have a choice:cry: I dont't need the quick swap thing, which may end up helping my case.

  • Roadstergal

Posted 06 July 2008 - 05:09 PM

#12

A few questions for Yamaha would be: Why did they use such a "whacky" front hub, when they could have just gone with the same front hub as the YZF/WR/etc.?
Why did they go with just an 18mm front axle, when the rear is the same as the "other" bikes at 20mm?


I gather from this, then, that no other Yammie dirt wheels will fit the front. But would a rear dirt wheel from a WR/YZ/etc. fit?

I'm trying to make my X a convertible. :thumbsup:

  • derangedhermit

Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:51 PM

#13

I gather from this, then, that no other Yammie dirt wheels will fit the front. But would a rear dirt wheel from a WR/YZ/etc. fit?

If you mean will another rear wheel fit the rear, yes. Just get a WR250R rear wheel. There may be different spacers and other small parts. Add on whatever sprocket you want.

So you will need WR250R (part #s and prices from ronniesmailorder):
- rear rim 94421-18016-00 $200 (2.15-18)
- rear spoke set 3D7-25304-00-00 $47
- rear hub 3D7-25311-00-00 $130
- rear sprocket 3D7-25410-00-00 $132 (43 tooth)
- rear sprocket bolts 90111-08030-00 $0.83 each
- bearings, spacers, seals, etc?

Or you can buy just the hub and small bits from Yamaha and have someone build a wheel using different spokes, rim, sprocket.

  • Roadstergal

Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:15 PM

#14

I'm talking about other non-WR250R Yamaha dirt bike wheels on the rear. There are more used/aftermarket options, and I'm a cheap bastid. That's no go?

  • nitrotuel

Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:02 PM

#15

http://www.chaparral...264F4C0C4A63A2A check out these warp 9's read the small print at the bottom

  • staringatthesun

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:27 PM

#16

so to date the only after market wheels to make an r an x are the oem for $1000 and the marchesini wheels for $2400 ?? guess you have to have a butt load of money to do this, and if you have that much money why dont you buy both bikes, haha sucks!

  • staringatthesun

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:33 PM

#17

btw, the reason I am asking is because at 1k miles my tires look like crap already, wearing terrible on the street. how many miles can you expect to get from decent SM tires? I am spending way way more time on the road than I expected, I don't even drive my truck anymore, it is becoming a necessity to get some street tires. thanks for any info.

  • derangedhermit

Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:49 PM

#18

so to date the only after market wheels to make an r an x are the oem for $1000 and the marchesini wheels for $2400 ?? guess you have to have a butt load of money to do this, and if you have that much money why dont you buy both bikes, haha sucks!

Yeah, I actually think Yamaha missed the boat here. Buying two sets of wheels, OK, but make it easy to swap - the front brake disks / calipers should be compatible in some way.

Frankly, I think Yamaha does understand the market. What to me would have been ideal is a DS bike with DS (compromise) wheels. The R rims are too skinny for street, and the X wheels are too wide for dirt (and the front too small). My choice would have been 17x3 rear and 19x2.5 or 21x2.1 front. But then neither the supermoto nor the dirt bike guys would consider it (IMHO).

Are there street-oriented DS tires (Anakee, Tourance, etc) available for stock WR250R wheels (21x1.6, 18x2.1)?

  • Roadstergal

Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:42 PM

#19

the front brake disks / calipers should be compatible in some way.


Maybe it's just me, but when I looked at the R and X next to each other on the floor, it looked to me like they shared the same L-shaped caliper mount, and the X just had a different adapter for the big rotor. Has someone tried to put an R front with its caliper adapter on an X and found that it just can't be done?

  • Jaynen

Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:43 PM

#20

Yeah, I actually think Yamaha missed the boat here. Buying two sets of wheels, OK, but make it easy to swap - the front brake disks / calipers should be compatible in some way.

Frankly, I think Yamaha does understand the market. What to me would have been ideal is a DS bike with DS (compromise) wheels. The R rims are too skinny for street, and the X wheels are too wide for dirt (and the front too small). My choice would have been 17x3 rear and 19x2.5 or 21x2.1 front. But then neither the supermoto nor the dirt bike guys would consider it (IMHO).

Are there street-oriented DS tires (Anakee, Tourance, etc) available for stock WR250R wheels (21x1.6, 18x2.1)?


There are a number of options in regards to DS tires as well as full on street tires according to some other threads. Thanks to Harley we can now get full on street tires in 21" size but they won't be the super sport crotch rocket racing tires

Maybe it's just me, but when I looked at the R and X next to each other on the floor, it looked to me like they shared the same L-shaped caliper mount, and the X just had a different adapter for the big rotor. Has someone tried to put an R front with its caliper adapter on an X and found that it just can't be done?


I think the fact that both models are available is sort of retarding the aftermarkets looking into this issue. People who wanted one or the other bought one or the other and its probably not a perceived need of wanting both.

Is there any reason you NEED to swap over to the larger rotor for example if you wanted to tard your R model or to the smaller one to put dirt tires on?




 
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