how do you check oil in 07 450? reads empty


17 replies to this topic
  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 08:15 AM

#1

Got the manual, did what was said and still no oil on dip stick. The dipstick is actually higher than the fill cap and it would take like 2 quarts to fill it even though it only requires about 1 quart. Anybody else getting a reading on the dip stick for an 07 450? I'm now just changing oil a few times a year and adding exactly what the manual calls for and as long as it doesn't leak or burn it, I should be fine. That's messed up right?

  • KJ790

Posted June 13, 2008 - 08:17 AM

#2

Did you start the engine and let it run so it can pump the oil out of the base of the engine and into the oil tank before you checked it?

  • grayracer513

Posted June 13, 2008 - 08:32 AM

#3

If you have two quarts in it, drain one out first, before you start it.

You are apparently not familiar with the fact that your bike has a dry sump oiling system. Read this:

http://www.thumperta...903#post5221903

Then, go back and re-read the manual. KJ has it pegged. You most likely failed to start and run the engine after it was filled. The problem here is that in normal operation, the oil is stored in the "tank", or reservoir section of the engine, away from the crank and transmission. Th eoil filler, however, leads into the sump cavity, so when you fill it, all of the oil is in an area separate from the one where the dip stick is located until after the engine has been run for long enough to move it from the sump to the tank. (usually at least 40 seconds to a minute)

  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 04:49 PM

#4

If you have two quarts in it, drain one out first, before you start it.

You are apparently not familiar with the fact that your bike has a dry sump oiling system. Read this:

http://www.thumperta...903#post5221903

Then, go back and re-read the manual. KJ has it pegged. You most likely failed to start and run the engine after it was filled. The problem here is that in normal operation, the oil is stored in the "tank", or reservoir section of the engine, away from the crank and transmission. Th eoil filler, however, leads into the sump cavity, so when you fill it, all of the oil is in an area separate from the one where the dip stick is located until after the engine has been run for long enough to move it from the sump to the tank. (usually at least 40 seconds to a minute)



While I appreciate your replying in hopes of giving me good advice, I have to ask if you own an 07 450. Because I have however, started the bike, ran it at VARIOUS time lengths and NEVER got a reading on the dip stick located on the engine and yes I am aware of the dry sump oiling. I've read the link you posted and that guy NEVER got a reading even after the same advice was followed. I have to ask if ANYBODY has EVER got a reading on the dip stick of an 07. When I first got the bike knowing I was changing the oil that same day, I added about 1 extra quart to the bike and still never got a reading on the dip stick, bike was level, ran it for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 10 minutes all with no level reading on the dip stick. It now has been replaced and measured with the appropriate amount the manual calls for so I know it's ok, but I guess the dip stick is there for no reason. If I knew how to post a video of me doing this I would post it up here. I

  • KJ790

Posted June 13, 2008 - 04:55 PM

#5

While I appreciate your replying in hopes of giving me good advice, I have to ask if you own an 07 450. Because I have however, started the bike, ran it at VARIOUS time lengths and NEVER got a reading on the dip stick located on the engine and yes I am aware of the dry sump oiling. I've read the link you posted and that guy NEVER got a reading even after the same advice was followed. I have to ask if ANYBODY has EVER got a reading on the dip stick of an 07. When I first got the bike knowing I was changing the oil that same day, I added about 1 extra quart to the bike and still never got a reading on the dip stick, bike was level, ran it for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 10 minutes all with no level reading on the dip stick. It now has been replaced and measured with the appropriate amount the manual calls for so I know it's ok, but I guess the dip stick is there for no reason. If I knew how to post a video of me doing this I would post it up here. I


The 06-08 are the same engine. You are saying when you check your dipstick it is completely dry? If you put it on a paper towel it doesn't leave any moisture on the paper towel? I am wondering if your overfilling it so that the oil is to the top of the dipstick, and since clean oil shows up clear on the dipstick, you are thinking it isn't reading anything. When you change your oil, do you drain both the engine and the oil tank? If oil is coming out of your oil tank when you change it, then your dipstick must be showing oil.

  • kickinfetus

Posted June 13, 2008 - 04:56 PM

#6

somethings wrong..... run it for a minute or two, then let it cool a bit and check......simple as that. works everytime on mine. maybe you have a clog or blockage in one of the lines? good luck troubleshooting

  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:01 PM

#7

The bike had black oil when I bought it (used) and thats when I added the extra quart as an experiment to get a reading. I use a white papertowel whenever checking oil so honestly, take the clear oil, too much/not enough oil reasons from this equation. I will also add that I have been building engines and working on cars/bikes my whole life so I do have a background and degree of common sense when it comes to working on engines. This just baffles me. KJ, do you have one of these bikes? I ask because I would like for you to measure your length of you dipstick (that sounds weird) to see if it's the same length as mine (ok that's even weirder!)

  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:04 PM

#8

somethings wrong..... run it for a minute or two, then let it cool a bit and check......simple as that. works everytime on mine. maybe you have a clog or blockage in one of the lines? good luck troubleshooting



No kidding, you actually get a reading? I would think a blockage could be a problem, not fully understanding or ever splitting one of these apart. I haven't waited more than 3 or so minutes before checking the oil after it ran. I did have another set o eyes checking that dip stick everytime I mesed with it though.

  • kickinfetus

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:05 PM

#9

so my bike has been sitting for weeks and i just checked it and its at the full mark...... no need to start it. the metal portion of the stick is 1.5"
you musta done some damage by putting double the amount of oil in it
:thumbsup:

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  • KJ790

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:10 PM

#10

I just pulled mine out, hasn't run in 3 days and it still reads full. The total length from top to bottom is about 3 inches and from the bottom to the bottom of the threads is 1-1/2 inches. Does oil come out of the oil tank when you change your oil?

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  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:12 PM

#11

so my bike has been sitting for weeks and i just checked it and its at the full mark...... no need to start it. the metal portion of the stick is 1.5"
you musta done some damage by putting double the amount of oil in it
:thumbsup:



Nope, no damage done. What type of damage do you think would occur? My dipstick is same length. embarrasing aint it lol.

  • grayracer513

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:22 PM

#12

I own two '06's, which are in every respect entirely identical as to the oiling system.

Drain the oil in both sides. Remove the dip stick. Remove the external vent hose that runs between the reservoir and the primary case cover. Blow air through the hose to check for/remove any obstructions. Carefully blow air into the tank through the dip stick hole to verify that it comes out the vent tube fitting. With the filler cap on, carefully blow air through the breather tube and verify that it comes out through the hose fitting on the primary case cover.

If everything looks OK, assemble it, and try again. If you still get no results, check for oil pressure at the 8mm bolt on the head, next to the carb mount, above the chain tensioner. It should not be necessary to remove this bolt, only loosen it. If none is present, and the oil level in the crankcase does not drop, then no oil may be being returned to the tank.

Remove the vent line from the tank only and plug it securely. Loosen the dipstick and start it. With the engine at idle, raise the dipstick up slightly. Return oil from the sump is pumped directly across the dipstick hole, and you should be able to tell if it is reaching that point. If it does not, then you may have an oil pump problem such as a sheared return rotor drive pin, or something obstructing the sump screen.

You can test further by actually adding oil to the tank instead of the sump, and testing for oil pressure again.

If it's necessary, the oil pump is serviceable from behind the clutch, and the sump screen can be fairly well accessed, if not actually serviced, through the lower back corner of the ignition cover. The return passages are mostly in that cover, as well.

  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:25 PM

#13

oil was drained from main drain plug at rear of engine. I would think if it had too much oil and caused damage, oil seals would be leaking someplace? I have no oil leaking, except a little from the overflow which occurred after running it briefly with too much oil. Something has to be wrong with it though since you guys are getting a reading.

  • grayracer513

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:26 PM

#14

I just pulled mine out, hasn't run in 3 days and it still reads full.

That's one of the things that has changed between the steel and alloy frame models. Now that the oil supply is carried so much lower the tendency for gravity to push the oil supply into the crankcases is much reduced from what some of us are used to. Still, the accurate way to get a reading is to run it up first.

  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:28 PM

#15

I own two '06's, which are in every respect entirely identical as to the oiling system.

Drain the oil in both sides. Remove the dip stick. Remove the external vent hose that runs between the reservoir and the primary case cover. Blow air through the hose to check for/remove any obstructions. Carefully blow air into the tank through the dip stick hole to verify that it comes out the vent tube fitting. With the filler cap on, carefully blow air through the breather tube and verify that it comes out through the hose fitting on the primary case cover.

If everything looks OK, assemble it, and try again. If you still get no results, check for oil pressure at the 8mm bolt on the head, next to the carb mount, above the chain tensioner. It should not be necessary to remove this bolt, only loosen it. If none is present, and the oil level in the crankcase does not drop, then no oil may be being returned to the tank.

Remove the vent line from the tank only and plug it securely. Loosen the dipstick and start it. With the engine at idle, raise the dipstick up slightly. Return oil from the sump is pumped directly across the dipstick hole, and you should be able to tell if it is reaching that point. If it does not, then you may have an oil pump problem such as a sheared return rotor drive pin, or something obstructing the sump screen.

You can test further by actually adding oil to the tank instead of the sump, and testing for oil pressure again.

If it's necessary, the oil pump is serviceable from behind the clutch, and the sump screen can be fairly well accessed, if not actually serviced, through the lower back corner of the ignition cover. The return passages are mostly in that cover, as well.



GRAY RACER YOU ROCK! That's what I was needing to hear! I will do this tonight as soon as it stops pouring down outside. I was gonna ask if there is some sort of one way valve that has got clogged someplace in there cause the oil was pretty bad when I got this bike (fried clutch)

  • grayracer513

Posted June 13, 2008 - 05:30 PM

#16

oil was drained from main drain plug at rear of engine.

Did you also drain the oil from the reservoir drain on the left side below the ignition cover, at 7:00 to the crank?

  • 9secmach1

Posted June 13, 2008 - 07:14 PM

#17

Did you also drain the oil from the reservoir drain on the left side below the ignition cover, at 7:00 to the crank?


Yes, long screw right?

  • grayracer513

Posted June 13, 2008 - 08:47 PM

#18

Yes, long screw right?

No. It's a drain plug, number 25 in this parts illustration (Near the bottom center). It's also shown on page 3-15 of the manual. If you don't have one, you need to download one.

http://www.yamaha-mo...ice/manuals.jsp



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