llamaface said:

I didn't say I was cheap I need to see the cost benefit of spending 100 bux which you gave me in your reply. If it lasts through 10 tires and u spend 20 bux a tube everytime you replace a tire you only have to go through 5 tires before you start saving money. Guess I'm on the bandwagon now...erm...the waiting line

kinada423 said:

But you could save the same 20 bux a tube by just reusing the tubes. that sounds even cheaper-er to me, so that's what I do.

I think the idea of tubeless sounds cool, if you are prone to pinch flats. I am not prone to pinch flats, and here in idaho it's not unusual to get big sidewall cuts. Fwiw, i found one of those tubliss inner liner gizmos on a pristine and remote trail near stanley, so whoever the douchebag is that got a sidewall cut or whatever and tossed the tubliss liner on the trail, you suck.

kinada423 said:

..aaaaaccctually,   Anything over 5 tires, is a savings.  And a Tubliss will last and last. Worse case, you will need to replace the inner core (tube) and it's super cheap. But more than likely it'll only come apart due to install/de-install or improper torque specs on the bead lock, or the core losing too much pressure.

That is unless you are a Moose Tube user, their prices went up and are much more costly than a Ultra H.D. Tube by Michelin or Bridgestone.  And they aren't even as H.D. as the competition.

Most importantly, a Tubliss rider isn't doing it for the cost savings... he/she is doing it for the added benefits of performance and weight savings, as well as flat resistance or run flat capabilities.

I am under the impression that inner tubes have a performance life about as long as the tire even if the tube still hold air the strucure of it has been compromised by heat and friction and once the tube heats up it will wallow in some spots and be stiff in others in turn affecting performance.

LLpeteJ said:

Even more reason to opt for the Tubliss.

... unless your rim heats up like a madman, the only heat you'll get is the heat the develops from the tire... and is inside the tire cavity.  But know, there's LESS heat buildup with a Tubliss, being you don't have the tube to tire contact to create the friction.

Just to completely digress:

When I ran Extra Heavy Duty Michelin tubes($25 a tube), the tubes would quickly build chucks of rubber stuck between the tire and tube. Thinner tubes rub the rubber into dust, but there is alot of rubber lost due to wear.

For the money you(and I) spend to travel and race, a DNF from a flat is expensive.

I would have to peel off the chucks before re-using the tubes.

That is alot of fricton and heat.

So I ordered an 18" setup for my WR250F and went to work...

A couple of comments first:

1--The customer service from Jeff at nuetech is unlike any I've ever received, anywhere!  Emails have been answered, even at 10:00 on a Friday night, almost immediately, always with thoughtful, polite advice rendered in a very helpful manner.  Jeff clearly needs a life!

2--Just so yall know, this was my first ever full-sized dirt tire change, so cut any perceived difficulty level in half or so if you have a clue...

--------

I did this over several days, pecking away at it as I had time.  I watched the video and read the instructions several times.  I took my time and checked the spokes once the old tire was off since the tape might make it harder to turn the nipples afterwards, and heck, I could, right?  

I took some time to clean the bulk of the old rubber and crud off the rim and knocked the sharpest edges off the nicks, etc on the rim.  I used soapy water rather than silicone on the red liner and had no trouble mounting it.  There was a small issue in that I just could not get the bike inner tube to stay folded like they show on the video where it passes the rimlock; however, once mounted it did not protrude under the "bead" and I decided to let it be.

I mounted a Motoz 110/100-18 Tractionator H/T; in my admittedly limited experience this is a stiff sucker; it probably didn't help that my asistant is 8 and weighs all of 40 lbs...  ("Don't say that word unless you can spell it, son....NO you CAN'T use 'MOM' instead of "MOTHER"...")

The bead seated easily except for one small section.  I deflated everything and soaped the crap out of that section, reinflated and bounced it on the ground a bunch and got it close enough that I decided to run it as-is.  It's a short section and it's really close; nothing I tried got it any closer.  I'm 99% positive that this is due to inadequate lubrication of the outside of the red liner at this point; in the future I'll use the recommended silicone lube and suggest that anyone else doing this does as well.  This section is near the last part of the bead we got mounted, I'm pretty sure that it simpy had time for the water to run off/dry out at that point, which the silicone would have been much less likely to do. It's close enough that I'd run it with a tube, so I'll try it like this.  I used the soap instead of the silicone because I was concerned about the effect of the silicone on the slime I'm planning to run in the tire.

So we aired it up and had the first real (but minor!) issue so far; for some reason the valve stem in the rimlock that inflates the tire itself is just a little too deep in the stem to reach the post in the pump head or any of the posts in any of the five tire gauges I have on hand.  I shot Jeff an email and turned the valvestem out enough to get some air in the tire, then turned it back in so as not to leak.  I had no issues, as noted above, with the beadlock stem or pressures.  By the time I did all of this Jeff was back to me suggesting I try a valve stem from another tube to isolate the problem; I haven't done this yet as I wanted to run a pressure test overnight.

18 hours later, pressures are within a pound or two of where we started (and it's 10 degrees colder, so that's well within the "no leaks" range) and I'm ready to throw in some slime and remount the wheel.  So far, so good!

My final impression of the mounting process is positive; with all of the rock we ride in around here I'm anxious to get the front wheel set up simply for the pinch flat issue!  Aside from the valve stem, the only issues I encountered was that there are no 10mm drill bits within an hour of our little redneck-of-the-woods and it took three stops to finally find any schrader-valved tire gauge that went to 110 psi, and that ended up being a pencil-style gauge which makes it a little harder since the volume of the liner tube is so small.

Can't wait to ride it!

=====

BTW, with all the discussion of sealants up-thread, here's Jeff's answer:

Slime works excellent, just get the TUBELESS type - and 8oz is good for the rear 6oz for the front.

=====

My understanding is that the tubeless slime works far better in this system than the tube type does in a regular motorcycle tube due to the better dimensional stability of the tire vs the tube.



Steve

I installed mine last night on the rear which was pretty dented.  I was a little concerned that the dented rim would interfere with the sealing but so far it is holding air just fine.

I had some left over Bib Mousse gel lubricant and used that on the inner liner instead of silicone spray, and used soapy water on the tire bead.  When I aired up the inner tube the tire bead seated right away.

alleycatdad said:

I agree about his service.... impeccable.

And this is his life, he takes it seriously... has a love for it. And one reason he and his business are good at it. There's not too many out there like him or his biz...  and I'm great full for it.  

... just to top it off, he sells a GREAT product.

In fact, I just installed another 21" front and 18" rear today... for an upcoming 600+ mile ride this week-weekend, across the California to Arizona Desert.

Man...Jeff goes way out of his way when it comes to customer service! He personally called me to make sure that I understood a couple of things. He deserves all the success that I know this product will bring to him!

By they way, not only does he have the 18", but he just told me that he has the 21" version in now. Mine is in the mail! Get 'em while there hot.

David

Jeff at nuetech has great customer service! He followed up to make sure everything worked and went together well. I haven't had any problems in the 600ish miles yet. I don't have to carry as many tools to do a tube change anymore. Just a plug kit. Glad to hear the 21inch came in. I have been calling every week waiting for them. I'll go order mine right now. I will order this product for all of my bikes.

Just curious, but did you all drill a third hole in your rim so that you could have two holes within a three to four spoke spread like he suggests or did you just use the two holes that you already have, even if they're far apart? My current valve stem hole and rim lock hole aren't as close together as Jeff suggests and wonder if it really makes that much of a difference to warrant drilling a third hole.

fitness2go said:

As per bolded instructions... you must drill a new hole.

If you do not, you are going against installation guidelines and run risks of a inner-core flat.  Jeff is very specific about this procedure.

As per the video instructions it said it was easier for installation, but wasn't necessary, but I'm going to do it anyway.

fitness2go said:

Ahhh... got me there, as I've not watched the video.  However I should...  it might make installation easier than reading the instructions!

The instructions are very well written, but the video guide really makes it easy for us knuckleheads! A fellow NW rider (Wiz), just informed me that he tried using the existing holes, but quickly found out that the extra hole made it so much easier...necessary for installation!

Thanks for the heads-up.  I ordered 18 and 21 last week and they arrived in 4days.
Installed the rear this morning - finding a drill bit close to 10mm was the hardest part - actual installation was easier than with a tube - instructions are great - video an added bonus.   I used tire shine as lubricant - it seemed to work well.   It took many turns on the rim lock nut to get it close to 20# - it stayed around 10-15# for many, many turns.  (I think because I left some burrs on the hub side of the rim)
Didn't hold air the first time but not worried.   Will report further.

What did everyone use for torque wrench? Deep socket on a ratchet wrench?

fitness2go said:

I heard that! I'm a knucklehead myself that usually won't read directions... but in this case, I read'em... and abided by them.  A near first!  I'll have to watch the video as I've got an 18" to do this next week.

I use a 3/8" drive Snap-On Click-Type torque wrench with a deep socket.... works well.

xxxbranham said:

Burs?!  Probably should've cleaned up the drill edge and inside of the rim...  good luck... I hope it won't make ya practice de-install to check and re-install again.  

I recently got one of the 19" Kits, (only one in stock at the time) to see if this system would be any better for something like the Vegas to Reno.  I tried a front Moouse Bib in the 2008 V2R and it was like riding a flat tire, literally.

I've got a 2005 CRF450R.  I used the existing rim lock hole for the inner tube, and opened up the other weep hole that was on the rim.

The kit comes with some reinforced tape which in my opinion isn't wide enough to properly cover the spokes.  

I followed all the instructions, watched the video, etc.  Did not use a new tire, but instead used the one that's been on the bike for a year now.  Figured, if this thing is really "virtually flat-proof!"  getting it to hold air period should not be a 1000% delicate matter.


Anyways, cleaned and cleaned and cleaned the rim, with acetone, etc.  It was dry and clean.  Applied the tape.  Thought to myself if this thing leaks, it'll probly be through the spokes since this really isn't a tube-less rim.

Filled a squirt bottle with johnson's Baby shampoo and water, Squirted around the tire like in the video, filled it and air started leaking through the spokes.

I didn't get any leaks from the old tire, or valve stems or anything like that, just through 3 spokes.

Took it back apart, and noticed the soapy water made the tape come loose everywhere.

Shopped around for similar tape, but got mostly Zombie stares from the idiots at all the Auto-parts stores.  

Ordered some more reinforced tape, but before I use it I think I'll try some prematex Silicone Gasket Sealer and put a bead over each Spoke, (letting it cure first) before taping over it.

This system still seems like a good idea but for a few issues.  Tape as wide as a roll of duck tape would probably be better than what is provided.  Plus, who knew Baby shampoo had such a penetrating effect!

I still think probly the weak link is the spokes; maybe this is due to a 4 year old wheel, but maybe if you're in a race and for whatever reason the tape comes loose; you could at any given moment loose the virtually flat proof staus.  

Will post the status of sealing the spokes when its done.