337 replies to this topic

[rdahl TT Bronze Member]

I think you are missing the point...the seal is between the Neutech Tube and the Tire beed....the nipples shouldn't ever have air pressure behind them. Only during the initial install when some air needs to excape from filling the nuetech liner. So just make sure there are no sharp edges exposed from the nipples, sealing them isn't necessary.

[JohnnyAirtime Get Help Now]

KSchwantz said:

I recently got one of the 19" Kits, (only one in stock at the time) to see if this system would be any better for something like the Vegas to Reno.  I tried a front Moouse Bib in the 2008 V2R and it was like riding a flat tire, literally.

I've got a 2005 CRF450R.  I used the existing rim lock hole for the inner tube, and opened up the other weep hole that was on the rim.

The kit comes with some reinforced tape which in my opinion isn't wide enough to properly cover the spokes.  

I followed all the instructions, watched the video, etc.  Did not use a new tire, but instead used the one that's been on the bike for a year now.  Figured, if this thing is really "virtually flat-proof!"  getting it to hold air period should not be a 1000% delicate matter.


Anyways, cleaned and cleaned and cleaned the rim, with acetone, etc.  It was dry and clean.  Applied the tape.  Thought to myself if this thing leaks, it'll probly be through the spokes since this really isn't a tube-less rim.

Filled a squirt bottle with johnson's Baby shampoo and water, Squirted around the tire like in the video, filled it and air started leaking through the spokes.

I didn't get any leaks from the old tire, or valve stems or anything like that, just through 3 spokes.

Took it back apart, and noticed the soapy water made the tape come loose everywhere.

Shopped around for similar tape, but got mostly Zombie stares from the idiots at all the Auto-parts stores.  

Ordered some more reinforced tape, but before I use it I think I'll try some prematex Silicone Gasket Sealer and put a bead over each Spoke, (letting it cure first) before taping over it.

This system still seems like a good idea but for a few issues.  Tape as wide as a roll of duck tape would probably be better than what is provided.  Plus, who knew Baby shampoo had such a penetrating effect!

I still think probly the weak link is the spokes; maybe this is due to a 4 year old wheel, but maybe if you're in a race and for whatever reason the tape comes loose; you could at any given moment loose the virtually flat proof staus.  

Will post the status of sealing the spokes when its done.

Great post on your experience... but, I will say;

... the tape is proper width, and works for my 18 and 21 wheels perfectly. Any wider and it would simply bunch up or cause concern (being it's not stretchy enough to remove the creases the width would cause).  It's not there to seal your wheel and spokes, it's there to protect the inner core from the spokes. The inner core seals to the wheel around the edges of the tape. If the tape was any wider...  the inner core couldn't cover the tape, and therefore couldn't seal properly.

... cleaning a rim with acetone and such, wasn't necessary in any of my installs.  And I've used old tires, old dented up rims... and never had a problem with a simple (very mild) soapy rim cleaning, and letting it dry before taping and installing.  Maybe your acetone was still around the spoke nipple area even though you thought it to be "dry", and caused the tape to peal back?!  I dunno... just guessing.  But, unless you wash it again and again with soapy water to rid the wheel of any left over acetone... it's not really "dry" or free of chemicals in my opinion.

... The tape you looked for, is easily attained from Jeff (Nuetech) and should be the only tape used (in my opinion) as thats what it was designed for. It's not some re-made duct tape cut down to fit in the wheel well. And honestly, he'd sent it out the same day you ask for it.  At least... thats my findings when I've experienced a need from him.


I only responded because I need to continue to support the system, being I'm not the guy who usually follows directions and I'm also one to use old parts to do the job. In fact, I've mounted on new wheels, new tires... and old wheels, old tires... and a criss cross of both.  I've NEVER had any issues with the solutions I use to clean... never had any leaks... and have ridden up to and maybe more than 2000 miles on a set (as of now).  Not trail riding, 2nd gear stuff...  Baja pre-running at 200 miles a stint, 300 mile destination rides over some super rought stuff.... low pressures used, high pressures used... I think I've done it all (all but trials riding), and even used a setup with a paddle on my CR500 (at super low pressure).     ...I've yet, to fail a system.

I will say... a system failed me, but it was due to install error... or, de-install error for a new tire installation.  Completely my fault, and one reason I have a couple extra inner cores laying around.  

... I agree 100% with you, BIBs are odd when they wear... just like 'riding a flat' !!!

[xxxbranham TT Bronze Member]

Yeah - I cleaned up the inside of the rim where the tube goes when I drilled the hole but left a little of a crush zone burr where the rim lock nut tightens down - it just made achieving correct torque a little problematic which is why I mentioned it.   On the front wheel I filed it down and was able to achieve rim lock torque with little effort.

Since my rear tire didn't hold pressure the first time I inflated it - I deflated it and added some slime (sorry Neutech but I reused my tire - I couldn't find any defects to prevent sealing around the tubliss - but I'm sure the tire had some thorn holes in it) it held pressure over-night so I'm good now.    

I also installed the front tire system (even easier than the rear) and it also held pressure over-night.

I'm looking forward to riding Sunday.   My only concern is I noticed how out-of-balance the wheels are - probably not any different than they were before but ??????? has anyone else worried about tire balance?

P,S.   I was looking at the 09 Moose catalog - in the hard parts section there's a 2 page picture of a YZ250 - I like the look (I ride a YZ250) - the fill stems on the wheels look like Tubliss to me.

[KSchwantz TT Member]

Quote

It's not there to seal your wheel and spokes, it's there to protect the inner core from the spokes. The inner core seals to the wheel around the edges of the tape. If the tape was any wider... the inner core couldn't cover the tape, and therefore couldn't seal properly.

Yeah, see I'm not sure if I buy that, because if what you say is true, then it shouldn't have mettered if the tape came unstuck or not as the core tube would have covered and sealed it anyways.

When I got done and all the air was pumped in I sprayed the soapy water all around the outside and the three places air came out were at three spokes.  

So far this tends to lead me towards the conclusion that sealing the inside of the spokes might be in order.

I ain't diss'n the system, as I'd really like it to work; but this is what I see with it so far.

[xxxbranham TT Bronze Member]

I've run Stan's in my mt bikes for years and the only system failure I ever had was when a couple of spokes punctured the rim tape and them the rim seal.

The Neutech system is not the same but it is similar in that the tire air is NOT sealed by the spoke holes or the rim tape - the rim tape is just there to protect the system from the spokes.   If you get tire air coming out of the spoke holes it's because the tire bead and the liner have not sealed together - and air is leaking into the spoke area.

[JohnnyAirtime Get Help Now]

KSchwantz said:

Yeah, see I'm not sure if I buy that, because if what you say is true, then it shouldn't have mettered if the tape came unstuck or not as the core tube would have covered and sealed it anyways.

When I got done and all the air was pumped in I sprayed the soapy water all around the outside and the three places air came out were at three spokes.  

So far this tends to lead me towards the conclusion that sealing the inside of the spokes might be in order.

I ain't diss'n the system, as I'd really like it to work; but this is what I see with it so far.

... are you 100% sure the tape didn't cause the leak?? Meaning, that the tape became unstuck and when you installed the tire... it may have caused the tape to get under the inner core where it's INTENDED to seal against bare wheel.  It's even possible the tape was touched with a tire iron...   and the tape became a hinderence to a good seal.  

I know your not "Diss'n", but your install procedure could be your culprit.  So until you know if it's the culprit or not... putting it out on the net, is subject to fact finding and discussion.

I can see where many different issues arise when installing, but I wonder if when people have issues... if they are first to type and post, or call Jeff and explain the issue to get to a resolution.  Then... come online and post up the findings.

[DezRiderX TT Member]

Just wanted to throwing my experiences with the Tubliss. I have been running the 21" front for over a year now. I have a few 1000 miles on it and about 25 desert races on it. To me it is the best investment I have ever made for my bike. I had one front flat with it when I first gout it. A stick went through my tire. This would have caused a flat even if I had a tube in. Since then I have added slime tothe tire and ran the sh!t out of it with no problems. I run the psi at 12 for desrt races and I am sure I can probably go lower. I have blasted this thing through many rock fields and to me it is bulletproof. I had a guy give me one he didn't want for my other bike that he didn't want that had a flat innercore. I called Jeff and got two new innercores for free. That is sweet customer service if you ask me. He also threw in free yellow tape so I could install it on my other bike.

[KSchwantz TT Member]

Quote

I know your not "Diss'n", but your install procedure could be your culprit. So until you know if it's the culprit or not... putting it out on the net, is subject to fact finding and discussion.

I can see where many different issues arise when installing, but I wonder if when people have issues...  if they are first to type and post, or call Jeff and explain the issue to get to a resolution. Then... come online and post up the findings.  

That's true, people search the net to hopefully find useful info before they potentially waste money.  9 out of ten posts about this product seem fall into two classes.  1. I just saw this new product, sounds good, but has anybody tried it? Well, anybody?

  &

2. Nuetech Tubliss core - Virtually flat proof, Runs cooler, Quicker acceleration ,No pinched tubes
Reduces unsprung weight, Secures tire bead.

See #2. only proves that someone figured out how to cut and paste text but actually offers little useful info.  Regurgitating a Brochure is nice, but it may not be entirely true.  Customer reviews are still very scant.  I would have been interested in hearing more posts like mine before I spent $100.00 to see what it was like, because I'm probly not the first, and probly won't be that last, that will have the same issues with it.  I would like to hear all the experiences people have had specifically, not just general terms like great, wow, etc...

I'm reserving judgement on the product as yet, but I will say, The feasibility of "virtually Flat-proof" seems a bit questionable when Merely holding air is such a delicate matter with this product initially.

[JohnnyAirtime Get Help Now]

KSchwantz said:

........ Customer reviews are still very scant.  I would have been interested in hearing more posts like mine before I spent $100.00 to see what it was like, because I'm probly not the first, and probly won't be that last, that will have the same issues with it.  I would like to hear all the experiences people have had specifically, not just general terms like great, wow, etc...

I'm reserving judgement on the product as yet, but I will say, The feasibility of "virtually Flat-proof" seems a bit questionable when Merely holding air is such a delicate matter with this product initially.

Lots of reviews... on here and other websites, and even some magazines (from what I've found) .

Sounds like you spent the $100, then looked for reviews. Not the other way around. I've been "spouting" reviews of the product for over a year.

... I understand your a skeptic, but... will you ever be happy?!   "Delicate" it is not... like anything, the finished product is in the quality of the installation.

Sorry, not trying to be an ass. Just think your blaming (therefore a skeptic), rather than owning up to the fact of ... well, what I've already said.  

[3BeeJay3 TT Bronze Member]

KSchwantz said:

Yeah, see I'm not sure if I buy that, because if what you say is true, then it shouldn't have mettered if the tape came unstuck or not as the core tube would have covered and sealed it anyways.

When I got done and all the air was pumped in I sprayed the soapy water all around the outside and the three places air came out were at three spokes.  

So far this tends to lead me towards the conclusion that sealing the inside of the spokes might be in order.

I ain't diss'n the system, as I'd really like it to work; but this is what I see with it so far.

How will you adjust/tighten your spokes later on if you seal them with silicone?
If you try to turn the nipples, you'll break the seal and have a leak.
I haven't used this system, but based on what I've read of it, It seems you're not getting a seal between the core and the tire bead, the way it's supposed to seal.
Just a thought.....

[KSchwantz TT Member]

Quote

How will you adjust/tighten your spokes later on if you seal them with silicone?
If you try to turn the nipples, you'll break the seal and have a leak.
I haven't used this system, but based on what I've read of it, It seems you're not getting a seal between the core and the tire bead, the way it's supposed to seal.
Just a thought.....

I've had this bike for 4 years now, and had to tighten them twice, (right before I decided to go ahead and try this system was the last)   the idea of sealing over the spokes is merely for a layed approach, (if this leaks a little it will be canceled here etc, that sort of thing)  Figured its worth a try.

I'm waiting on a reply from Jeff at Nuetech, and a new tire to eliminate any of those possibilities associated with using a used tire.  If it holds air then super, I'm an advocate, if all it ever does is leak, and there's always this, that and the other to ever get it to work period, then I call bullsh**.  I'm giving this thing the benefit of doubt, but if it turns out it never holds air, then its hardly flat-proof. Know what I mean?

If I thought a Moouse Bib was worth a flip I wouldn't bother, but when I decided to race V2R I went to Bruce Ogilvie at Honda and said, what's the spec on what I need.  I got recommended said tire, (size and model) and the bib, and installed it.  From the get go it was like a tire with 4lbs of air in it.  At around 348 miles the front wheel finally cratered from all the banging.  Had to use a back up wheel  with a tube in it.  It never went flat but it was on my mind, If this one goes I've had it.  I told him about it, and he said, well you need to be sure and get a fresh one, blah, blah, blah.  I said Yeah, I ordered it from rockymtnatv.  How the hell and I supposed to know if they have fresh ones or not; you pay $130.00 and you get what they send you.  Extra extra duty tubes might be ok but they're crap for handling.  I asked Bruce if they ever tried these, (TUBLISS CORE) and he said, yeah we tested it.  Its not good for anything but putting around. "No Serious Racer Would Use that"   They do have a high opinion of their team you know...  That's about it.

[KSchwantz TT Member]

Quote

Sounds like you spent the $100, then looked for reviews. Not the other way around. I've been "spouting" reviews of the product for over a year.

Sounds like you failed to read or comprehend much of what I wrote and instead sat there content forming conclusions in your own skull as it were, thanks.

[JohnnyAirtime Get Help Now]

KSchwantz said:

Sounds like you failed to read or comprehend much of what I wrote ............, thanks.

...not the first, and won't be the last time I'm accused of that. But it's "how it read" to me.   ... no worries, maybe you'll have better luck next mounting!

[Deinabolic TT Bronze Member]

I've read through this and numerous other tubeless threads and I've yet to see any talk of tire squirm or knobs ripping off at lower pressure - can anybody comment?

Reason I ask is I'm about 220lb and if I go below 10psi on tubes, my tires are all over the place and the side knobs are prone to chunking so I'm not getting how these same symptoms wouldn't occur with tubeless?

That said, I'm still on the verge of pulling the trigger on a 21, if for no other reason than hopefully smoothing out the chatter through my hands and hopefully cutting out some arm pump.

[LLpeteJ TT Platinum Member]

i would think the tire would wallow less at low presures due to the full wrap rim lock keeping the sidewall stiff.

[Bigbird TT Bronze Member]

I too will add my endorsement to this product.  I have used the 21" tubeliss product for about a year now with virtually no loss of air outside of a pound or two every month.  I think this is equal to or better than tubed tires.  I ride the AZ desert and pretty rocky conditions with lots of spikey things that can puncture tires/tubes thrown in.  I have had one puncture flat from a Century Plant spike.  I pulled the spike out, used a tire plug to fix the tire, pumped it up and it has held ever since.

If you follow the directions explicitly, I don't think there is an issue with loss of air in this system any more than with a tube, and the ease of trail fixing a tire is quite beneficial.  My plan is to buy this system for all my bikes, and anyone should make their mind up on the preponderance of the evidence which, in my mind, leans strongly in favor of the quality and functionality of the the system.

[Funk TT Bronze Member]

KSchwantz said:

Sounds like you failed to read or comprehend much of what I wrote and instead sat there content forming conclusions in your own skull as it were, thanks.

[JimXCW TT Bronze Member]

My first ride with an 18" tubeliss was today.  Had 8 lbs of pressure in the tire before I started and didn't lose any air.  After 1 ride I'm sold on the tubeliss.  It works and makes changing tires a lot easier.  I didn't use any slime.  I used Armor All on the tubeliss core and some WD40 on the tire bead during installation

[LLpeteJ TT Platinum Member]

so what size drill bit is everyone using. the directions call for a 10mm hole are you guys just rounding out a 3/8" bit slightly?  thanks

[KSchwantz TT Member]

Quote

so what size drill bit is everyone using. the directions call for a 10mm hole are you guys just rounding out a 3/8" bit slightly? thanks

I used one marked 25/64 Hitachi from HomeDepot, in fine print it said 9.9mm.  Closest I could find without special order.  It worked.