'08 450 with 47 hours = locked up :(


104 replies to this topic
  • motoclay

Posted May 22, 2008 - 07:04 PM

#21

:thumbsup: yeah, haha, hes def. got some further damage!

  • KAS

Posted May 22, 2008 - 07:10 PM

#22

Here's my advice.

I didn't feel like doing the motor work myself. I pulled the motor, and took it down to the Yamaha shop. They tore it all down, and gave me the bad news: $1800 in parts, $300 in labor. Ouch.

The owner of the shop called Yamaha and said, look, we've got an '07 with low hours thats toast. No signs of abuse or neglect, the guy takes good care of his stuff. This shouldn't have happened, what are you gonna do about it?

He went round and around with them. Finally, Yamaha agreed to warranty all the parts & labor. I'm not paying a dime for it.

Good luck man, I feel for ya.

  • swaldrop

Posted May 22, 2008 - 07:18 PM

#23

I bet it dropped a valve. Thats why the sparky is smashed. and thats why u were able to move the kicker a little further. U can t move it now cuz the valve tulip is wedged between the head and piston. When u get it all apart, make damn sure the crank isnt bent or damaged, all that force had to go somewhere, the head took some, but i guarantee that crank took a hit too, just make sure u check it all out, or u will be back here REAL soon. Get ALL the metal out too, thoroughness is key to a good rebuild.


And we have a winner!!!

Posted Image
Posted Image

How much further down do I need to go? Should I pull the cylinder as well? Then once that is off, how do I go about making sure the crank isn't jacked up?

What is this going to cost me? :thumbsup:

  • digger81

Posted May 22, 2008 - 07:38 PM

#24

I'd be stopping there boxing it up taking it down to the dealership and asking some questions,warrenty or getting it fixed at the right price.47 hours seems pretty low hours to be dropping valves Good luck.

  • Lowedog

Posted May 22, 2008 - 08:58 PM

#25

Just curious how often if at all you checked valve clearance. I'm thinking that there should have been some signs that this was coming. Hard starting when cold? Backfiring?

-Lowedog

  • KAS

Posted May 22, 2008 - 09:04 PM

#26

Just curious how often if at all you checked valve clearance. I'm thinking that there should have been some signs that this was coming. Hard starting when cold? Backfiring?

-Lowedog


Like I said before, my '07 did exactly this.

There was NO warning. Ran fine the day before, then CRUNCH.

  • swaldrop

Posted May 22, 2008 - 09:17 PM

#27

Here's my advice.

I didn't feel like doing the motor work myself. I pulled the motor, and took it down to the Yamaha shop. They tore it all down, and gave me the bad news: $1800 in parts, $300 in labor. Ouch.

The owner of the shop called Yamaha and said, look, we've got an '07 with low hours thats toast. No signs of abuse or neglect, the guy takes good care of his stuff. This shouldn't have happened, what are you gonna do about it?

He went round and around with them. Finally, Yamaha agreed to warranty all the parts & labor. I'm not paying a dime for it.

Good luck man, I feel for ya.


Care to elaborate on exactly how that whole scenario played out and who I should get in touch with at the dealer? Parts dept? Service dept?

As I see it now, I am looking at a pretty long parts list with an equally impressive price tag. I suppose I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what they say.

As far as parts, I'm thinking I'll need the following...

- Head
- All 5 valves
- Piston and rings
- Head and Cylinder gaskets
- Anything I'm missing?

Everything else looks perfect as far as I can tell. Well everything except for a small indentation in the cylinder wall as shown below...

Posted Image

It's hard to see, but it looks as if it has been there for quite a while (possibly from the factory?). It definitely didn't happen today as it is the same color as the rest of the cylinder wall and the edges have a smooth/worn finish to them. If it were fresh, it would be an obvious groove or cut. Any thoughts? Could this type of imperfection have caused the valve to grow weak and finally break?

I know I'm reaching here, but I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

Thanks to all who contributed. No matter how it all turns out, I'm sure I'll be back to get help putting it all back together.

  • swaldrop

Posted May 22, 2008 - 09:23 PM

#28

Just curious how often if at all you checked valve clearance. I'm thinking that there should have been some signs that this was coming. Hard starting when cold? Backfiring?

-Lowedog


To be honest, I had not yet checked the valves. I have read sooooo many times on this same forum how bullet proof these bikes were that I figured I could wait until about the 60 hour mark.

The bike has always ran perfect and I have never had a problem starting. First or second kick EVERY time. If it was a valve out of adjustment, I would have had some warning of some kind.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted May 22, 2008 - 10:27 PM

#29

SHIT!

This worries me as my '07 WR is coming up on about 45 hours. I truly hope your's was a freak deal. That should NOT be hapening at 45 hours. 145 hours maybe, 245 possible, 345 hours yes but 45 hours no. It reminds me of the issues on the '06 YZ 250f where yamaha warrentied all of them. Get on yamaha's case it should be their obligation to fix this and make it right.

  • Ga426owner

Posted May 23, 2008 - 04:43 AM

#30

First I am sorry this has happened to your bike. 47hrs is way too short to drop a valve. Heres my advice. What ever you do - do not tell Yamaha dealer you only use Rotella. This will not help your cause based on my experience with yami dealer reps/service managers here in the SE. They look for reasons not to pay a claim. :thumbsup:

And this is not a bash on Rotella, even though I have never used it.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • alleycat50

Posted May 23, 2008 - 05:00 AM

#31

First I am sorry this has happened to your bike. 47hrs is way too short to drop a valve. Heres my advice. What ever you do - do not tell Yamaha dealer you only use Rotella. This will not help your cause based on my experience with yami dealer reps/service managers here in the SE. They look for reasons not to pay a claim. :thumbsup:

And this is not a bash on Rotella, even though I have never used it.


Good advice!Yamaha only wants their parts on their bikes.Remove anything aftermarket and put the stock back on(hope you still have the parts.)Tell them you used Yama-lube with Yama-coolant and yama-fuel(last two I don't think exist)but I think you get the picture.

  • swaldrop

Posted May 23, 2008 - 05:04 AM

#32

First I am sorry this has happened to your bike. 47hrs is way too short to drop a valve. Heres my advice. What ever you do - do not tell Yamaha dealer you only use Rotella. This will not help your cause based on my experience with yami dealer reps/service managers here in the SE. They look for reasons not to pay a claim. :thumbsup:

And this is not a bash on Rotella, even though I have never used it.


Yeah, I actually already thought about that. I haven't spoken to a dealer yet and I am not real sure how to approach the whole deal. I suppose I'll just call when they open and see how it goes.

What about that cylinder wall? Is that anything to be worried about?

  • alleycat50

Posted May 23, 2008 - 05:20 AM

#33

Yeah, I actually already thought about that. I haven't spoken to a dealer yet and I am not real sure how to approach the whole deal. I suppose I'll just call when they open and see how it goes.

What about that cylinder wall? Is that anything to be worried about?


Is there a groove in the piston or ring where a piece that size could have gotten by?Is there a broken piece in one ring?

I assume that the bike has worked good up until now.It looks like that dent is below the rings at TDC.You may see a mark on the rings from it.

Looks to me like the valve broke off just where the stem starts,there is a step there and would be the weakest part of the valve.

I got to go look at the top of the piston again.

  • alleycat50

Posted May 23, 2008 - 05:21 AM

#34

Can you take a pic of the bottom of the plug and post it?

  • FreshDonutsCAN

Posted May 23, 2008 - 05:34 AM

#35

Dang i thought our yamys were supposed to last forever! This scares me my bike is probably around 50-60 hours!

  • Jake92

Posted May 23, 2008 - 05:43 AM

#36

Their like anything, some are ticking time bombs. Heres my Honda vs Yama run down

03 CRF450= 3 sets of Kibblewhites in one year- 2 timing chains- Broke end off crank at 28 pounds with a snap on torque wrench changing timing chain. All this in 85 hours.

03 and 05 YZ 450 combined. 0 cranks normal piston replacement, O valves.

  • swaldrop

Posted May 23, 2008 - 06:26 AM

#37

Is there a groove in the piston or ring where a piece that size could have gotten by?Is there a broken piece in one ring?

I assume that the bike has worked good up until now.It looks like that dent is below the rings at TDC.You may see a mark on the rings from it.

Looks to me like the valve broke off just where the stem starts,there is a step there and would be the weakest part of the valve.

I got to go look at the top of the piston again.


Other than the gouging from the broken valve, the piston looks good. The dent in the cylinder wall is below TDC and the rings are in good shape. The bike worked flawlessly before this happened.

The valve did snap right where the stem starts. It wasn't a clean break either. It almost looks as if it was pulled off the end of the shaft.

Here's a pic of the plug. The camera sucks, but you get the idea of what happened. The broken valve is what hit the plug, driving the valve into the top of the cylinder.

Posted Image

  • alleycat50

Posted May 23, 2008 - 06:56 AM

#38

I was expecting the electrode to be gone.Looks intact.Did you rejet?to me it looks lean, or is all of the ceramic broken away,thats why it is white?Should be light brown on the ceramic down deep into the plug.

  • swaldrop

Posted May 23, 2008 - 07:12 AM

#39

I was expecting the electrode to be gone.Looks intact.Did you rejet?to me it looks lean, or is all of the ceramic broken away,thats why it is white?Should be light brown on the ceramic down deep into the plug.


The bright white is where it is broken. It's hard to see, but the remaining portion is a light brown. The electrode, although in tact, is smashed against the ceramic.

Edit: Stock jetting, which has always seemed to work pretty well.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 23, 2008 - 07:58 AM

#40

Everything else looks perfect as far as I can tell. Well everything except for a small indentation in the cylinder wall as shown below...

It's hard to see, but it looks as if it has been there for quite a while (possibly from the factory?). It definitely didn't happen today as it is the same color as the rest of the cylinder wall and the edges have a smooth/worn finish to them. If it were fresh, it would be an obvious groove or cut. Any thoughts? Could this type of imperfection have caused the valve to grow weak and finally break?

No, and if it is as you describe, it may well be that it's always been there. But you need to be sure, because if it's a dent from this failure, the plating may peel off from that point.

Other than the gouging from the broken valve, the piston looks good.

Even so, reusing the piston is risky, Each of those dents will be surrounded by an array of microscopic fractures radiating outward from it. These might not be serious enough to cause trouble, but...

It is also imprudent to use the crank assembly without having it thoroughly inspected. The impact(s) of the valve with the piston/head that occurred out to the right side could easily have bent the rod so that wrist pin is out of parallel with the crank. The big end bearing or crank pin may have had impressions of the rollers "stamped" into it, and the crankshaft itself may have been knocked out of alignment.

Your parts will be 35% below retail at the TT OEM Parts Store.





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