04 450 wont start after swimming


11 replies to this topic
  • mad38dog

Posted May 09, 2008 - 04:54 PM

#1

My first post here after reading the posts on this site for the last 1/2 year or so.

I have ridden and raced 2 strokes all through the 70's and 80's until injury stopped me for a while.

Last fall I picked up a nice 04 450 to follow my 8 year old around. The bike was used but in really good shape, (original tires, paint barely worn off the frame)

After the first few rides I got the starting down, and I could start it on the first kick just about every time. This bike was great, no unusual motor noises, as a matter of fact it seemed to have less motor noise than the YZ250 that I just sold.

Three weeks ago we were riding and I endoed off a creek bank and submerged the bike and also myself. The bike was running when it hit the water I know this for sure, but when I finally came too and picked it up and got it out of the water and tried to start it, it was water locked tight.

It was probably 3 or 4 days before i could finally drain the water out of everything, (slight spinal cord damage from landing on my head) so within a week I had drained the oil, cleaned the carb and air filter. While I was at it I changed the flywheel to a gytr off-road one I had bought off of ebay.
Put some cheap oil in it to flush the rest of the water out, new gas and tried to start it but nothing. Pulled the plug out and replaced it had good spark still doesn't start.
Thought the cam chain had maybe skipped. With the new flywheel and no marks on it had to do TDC with a screwdriver in the spark plug hole, and the dots on the cam sprockets seem to line up correctly.

Put everything back together and I still cant get this thing to start, it has good compression, no unusual noises when I kick it, good gas, clean filter what am i missing?

  • sparkyz

Posted May 09, 2008 - 06:26 PM

#2

Did you drain any water that might have gotten in the exhaust??? Did you completely disassemble the carb to clean it and if so did you return the fuel screw to the same position it was at before taking it apart??? You could also try spraying some starting fluid into the airboot to see if you are looking for a fuel problem or an electrical/ timing problem.

  • mad38dog

Posted May 09, 2008 - 06:59 PM

#3

thanks for the reply

the exhaust was completely removed and drained

I did remove the carb and cleaned the float bowl, the main jet and 2 surrounding jets I put the fuel screw in the same position it was when I removed it.

I have property that slopes down, so I did try to bump start it a couple of times and I didnt even get a pop out of it

Is it possible the gytr flywheel is installed improperly or even faulty?
My next step is to put the oem flywheel back on and give it a try

  • Pilfer8

Posted May 10, 2008 - 12:32 AM

#4

I dont imagine the flywheel would have anything to do with it. You obviously cleaned and dried your air filter?

  • grayracer513

Posted May 10, 2008 - 08:14 AM

#5

The flywheel could have sheared a key, or have been installed so that the key was dislodged, but that shouldn't have been directly connected to the swim except by coincidence.

  • Mike Martel

Posted May 16, 2008 - 11:25 AM

#6

is it possible you are 180 out when you put the fly wheel on. TDC does not only mean the piston is at the top. I believe that also means the spark plug is firing on that rotation as well. The very next time the piston is at the top would not spark.

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  • sparkyz

Posted May 16, 2008 - 12:09 PM

#7

Actually unlike a car's engine, these bikes fire every time the piston comes to TDC whether it's on the compression stroke or exhaust stroke.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 16, 2008 - 03:56 PM

#8

is it possible you are 180 out when you put the fly wheel on.

No, it isn't. Read sparkyz post above.

  • mad38dog

Posted May 17, 2008 - 02:36 PM

#9

just want to thank you guys for the replys and clarify things a little.

After the swimming episode, when i had the bike apart to drain the oil and clean the carb is when i decided to change the original flywheel to the gytr flywheel.

Is it possible to install the flywheel improperly so the bike wont start?
When I placed the new flywheel on the crank I was shure that the keyway was lined up with the slot, and torqued it down to the specs in the manual.

After not getting this thing to start I decided the only thing I changed was the flywheel and decided to revert back to the original flywheel and see what happens. When I removed the gytr flywheel I inspected the woodruff key and it looked rounded at the sides. It was difficult to remove (some heat required but not excessive) and this makes me think that maybe in my deteriorated physical state that I might have installed the flywheel off key which I think would make the timing off and not start.

Of course none of the dealers close by have a woodruff key in stock so I have to wait until wednesday for a new key to see if this is the problem

  • sparkyz

Posted May 18, 2008 - 12:18 AM

#10

I don't believe this would be the cause of your problem. If the key was completely sheared off allowing the flywheel to spin seperately from the crank it would be an issue but a little rounded shouldn't make a difference.
After re-reading your post I guess I may have a different idea of what you mean by rounded. Generally speaking it is not uncommon for a woodruff key to be difficult to remove. If the key was still in it's slot after you removed the flywheel it would seem extremely unlikely that the flywheel was on incorrectly (unless it has multiple groves on the flywheel that the key could fit into...)

Did you ever try using some starting fluid??? If it fires up with starting fluid this will at least tell you that you more than likely have an issue with fuel/ carburetor.

  • mad38dog

Posted May 23, 2008 - 07:53 PM

#11

Just wanted to post an update and a thank you to those who replied.

After removing the old woodruff key and replacing it and installing the original flywheel it fired up on the second kick.

Right now I am in the process of starting it up for a few minutes and draining the oil to remove all the water in the motor. I have flushed it out 4 times and still see milky looking oil.
I will repeat this till the oil is clean then I am going to try the suspect flywheel again to see if it was my mistake or possibly a defective flywheel, which i highly doubt it could be.
Thanks again

  • Ga426owner

Posted May 24, 2008 - 05:13 AM

#12

Just wanted to post an update and a thank you to those who replied.

After removing the old woodruff key and replacing it and installing the original flywheel it fired up on the second kick.

Right now I am in the process of starting it up for a few minutes and draining the oil to remove all the water in the motor. I have flushed it out 4 times and still see milky looking oil.
I will repeat this till the oil is clean then I am going to try the suspect flywheel again to see if it was my mistake or possibly a defective flywheel, which i highly doubt it could be.
Thanks again



you are on the right track -
I would also suggest adding some Marvels Mystery Oil to the oil. This stuff helps get rid of most of the moisture. It will take 2-3 oil changes with this stuff to rid of the condensation/moisture for the internals. It also helps to coat all internal parts that could be adversely affected by water. :thumbsup:





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