starting problem, no LED


20 replies to this topic
  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted May 05, 2008 - 09:31 PM

#1

I am still trying to figure out my wr450. It won't start. I click the main button and the LED does not come on. However, there is 12v coming in and going out of the switch.


Does the starter cutout relay control the LED? If I have 12v at the switch, should I also have 12 volts coming into the cutout relay?

Funny thing is... even with the switch on, I cannot kick start the bike. That tells me that I am not getting any current to the ignition circuit.

I am trying to figure out what is between the ignition switch and the starter cutout relay.

Maybe I should replace it? Is this something I can get at an electronics store?

Anyone know how to bypass the cutout relay to do some testing?

  • matt4x4

Posted May 06, 2008 - 03:45 AM

#2

Is your kill switch stuck?
It sounds like you have a dirty connector somewhere on the bike.

  • CORider63

Posted May 06, 2008 - 06:49 AM

#3

The LED is controlled by the CDI. I have replaced my stock ignition switch with a keyed switch so I can't test whether or not a shorted (or pressed) engine kill switch would cause the LED to go out.

I would check to be sure that your engine kill switch is not shorted and check to see if you're getting spark.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Electrical Diagram.jpg


  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted May 06, 2008 - 08:04 AM

#4

The LED is controlled by the CDI. I have replaced my stock ignition switch with a keyed switch so I can't test whether or not a shorted (or pressed) engine kill switch would cause the LED to go out.

I would check to be sure that your engine kill switch is not shorted and check to see if you're getting spark.


CDI??? that sounds expensive. I didn't know about the engine kill switch making the led go out. I am going to disconnect that thing.

Question: is the kill switch normally open or normally closed. Conventional thinking is its normally open and shunts the voltage to ground.

I did notice two days ago that the led lit up for some reason and the bike started. Then the light went out and I haven't been able to start it since.


This is why I think its something electronic. (relay or something)

I have been trying to tone the wiring to check the connections, but I need a better diagram to identify the components on the bike.

Thanks

  • CORider63

Posted May 06, 2008 - 08:12 AM

#5

Did you see the Electrical Diagram I attached in my previous post?

To ensure that your Engine Kill switch is not causing the problem, simply unplug it.

  • rubberband-man

Posted May 06, 2008 - 08:48 AM

#6

I had the same problem on my ride this weekend. We were out, and my bike died. No LED. I pulled the seat off, and the 10amp fuse to the battery was burned out. I replaced it with the 15 amp in the lighting fuse (required slight modification because the 10 amp fuse was keyed), but LED lit up, and I'm back in business. Anybody know why they only put a 10 amp fuse to the main relay to the ignition>?

  • CORider63

Posted May 06, 2008 - 09:10 AM

#7

That 10-Amp Fuse also limits the charge current back into the battery.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted May 06, 2008 - 10:24 AM

#8

They put a 10 amp fuse in because everything in the circuit is designed to handle a 10 amp load. My guess is that you either had a bad 10 amp fuse or a bad connection at the fuse. Either way going to a 15 amp is not what fixed your problem but perhaps the act of replacing the fuse did. The battery charging current is limited by the output of the DC magneto which is about 2 amps but the battery itself is capable of delivering very high current. I highly recommend you put a 10 amp fuse back in before something bad happens.

  • CORider63

Posted May 06, 2008 - 11:34 AM

#9

Can anyone test to see if pressing the Engine Kill Switch causes the LED to go out?

  • face_plant

Posted May 06, 2008 - 12:00 PM

#10

no it does not
mine has been doing it on and off for 6 months now
i simply kick start it and it usually comes back on
i notice it does it after a very heavy wash, thinking bad connection to the relay under the seat.

if the bike is on its off
if the bike is off than its on

if any part should be replaced it should be the relay

when mine takes a crap it will buzz and turn off

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  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted May 06, 2008 - 01:04 PM

#11

Can anyone test to see if pressing the Engine Kill Switch causes the LED to go out?


Another good piece of information would be... If you disconnect the relay, does the LED go out?

That would tell me whether or not to get a new relay.

  • CORider63

Posted May 06, 2008 - 01:49 PM

#12

If the relay were bad, the electric starter wouldn't work.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted May 06, 2008 - 01:52 PM

#13

The relay is only active when the estart button is pushed so it should not have any effect on the led being out. Do you have 12 volts on the brown wire going into the CDI box?

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted May 06, 2008 - 07:16 PM

#14

If the relay were bad, the electric starter wouldn't work.


It doesn't. However, I got some jumper leads and tested the relay. It works fine.

I just need to figure out a way to get voltage to it.

  • CORider63

Posted May 06, 2008 - 09:19 PM

#15

1. Make sure that the battery is fully charged and that the battery connections are clean and tight.

2. With the bike in Neutral AND the Clutch pulled in, check for a good ground on the Blue/Red Stripe Wire coming out of the Neutral & Clutch Switches that goes to the Start Button.

3. With the bike in Neutral and the clutch released, check for a ground on this same wire, again.

4. If everything checks out, with the bike in Neutral and the Start button pressed in, check for a good ground on the Blue/Black Stripe wire going into the Starting circuit cutoff relay.

5. With the bike in Neutral and the power switch on, check for +12V on the Brown wire going into the Starting circuit cutoff relay.

6. If everything checks good, then the Starting circuit cutoff relay should pull in when the starter button is pressed. You can confirm this by checking for a good ground (Zero Volts) on the Blue/White Stripe wire going to the Starting circuit cutoff relay. It should "float" to around 12V with the starter button released.

I suspect that you have a bad ground connection somewhere.

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted May 06, 2008 - 09:43 PM

#16

The relay is only active when the estart button is pushed so it should not have any effect on the led being out. Do you have 12 volts on the brown wire going into the CDI box?


Dude... that was the clue. I checked the diode (it failed the continuity test btw...). But that's not the problem.

But then I checked the 12v at the cdi by putting a meter on the connector pin - nothing.

The diagram says that it should connect to the brown wire on the ignition switch. When I checked continuity between the soldered post on the switch and the cdi I got nothing.

So I then followed the wire from the main switch to the connector. It was good going in to the connector. I pulled the wire out and checked from the inside pin to the cdi - nothing.

I then found that brown wire is broken from the pin at the bottom of the connector for the main switch.

I just need to get my soldering iron and then connect the wire together. Then I need to create some room for the wiring to move around a little.

Thanks for the help everyone.

  • rubberband-man

Posted May 07, 2008 - 12:18 AM

#17

pdb blue--I know the 15 amp fuse didn't fix the problem, the new fuse--whatever the amperage was---it just happened to be 15-- fixed the prob. thanks. I already switched the 10 back in.

  • CORider63

Posted May 07, 2008 - 07:58 AM

#18

Dude... that was the clue. I checked the diode (it failed the continuity test btw...). But that's not the problem.


Keep in mind that a Diode (and an LED) will only show continuity in one direction and only if the voltage on the continuity checker is high enough for the diode to begin to conduct.

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted May 07, 2008 - 10:15 AM

#19

Keep in mind that a Diode (and an LED) will only show continuity in one direction and only if the voltage on the continuity checker is high enough for the diode to begin to conduct.



That may be why it failed. I've got one of those fancy sears multi-meters instead of my trust old fluke analog meter. The book says to look for 1 ohm resistance instead of checking for continuity. There is obviously a small amount of resistance across the diode.

No worries though. A little solder and the led and the starter works just fine.

At least I learned something about the bike...

  • CORider63

Posted May 07, 2008 - 10:48 AM

#20

That may be why it failed. I've got one of those fancy sears multi-meters instead of my trust old fluke analog meter. The book says to look for 1 ohm resistance instead of checking for continuity. There is obviously a small amount of resistance across the diode.

No worries though. A little solder and the led and the starter works just fine.

At least I learned something about the bike...

With your Sears multi-meter, just try reversing the leads on the LED and it may very well check good.




 
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