K&N Air Filter?


16 replies to this topic
  • grizzlyadams

Posted April 29, 2008 - 02:33 PM

#1

Hey fellas, got a question for anyone with some knowledgeable input. So I have an 07 WR 450f and did all the mods exhaust and what not. I put a K&N air filter in it and was talkin to a mechanic at my local shop and he reccomended not using it, reason being was that I lets in too much fine dust. Ive always thought that k&n was prety good at keeping most particles out. What are some of your thoughts on this matter? Oh and I ride in northern Idaho so its not real dry most of the time but can get dusty if that has any affect on your opinion. Thanks - Marcus

  • blue07450

Posted April 29, 2008 - 02:43 PM

#2

Yeah...I was told by Yamaha....the stock air filter is very good and you probably wont find a better one.....if you have done the airbox mod you will get more air and you will have to clean your filter more often:prof:

  • byggd

Posted April 29, 2008 - 03:47 PM

#3

It lets in too much fine dust

He is correct, the K&N does not filter the finer dust particles. Run a good filter like TwinAir and you can't go wrong.

  • ETP

Posted April 29, 2008 - 07:06 PM

#4

I studied this topic of fine dust and after market fixes a couple years ago. After using the search engine, reading many threads, and participating in some of them, I came to the conclusion that none of the new "trick" stuff seemed to help too much. The majority say old school is still the best way to go.
The stock foam filter, or a quality dual element foam filter work the best when saturated properly with quality tacky filter oil.
However, I did buy an after market gasket for the intake perimeter.
This setup has reduced the amount of fine dust getting past the filter on my bike.

  • BAHeron

Posted April 30, 2008 - 03:39 AM

#5

I have a K&N in my 00' WR and have never had a problem, carb stays clean. I guess i oil it well enough.

  • wartsnuff

Posted April 30, 2008 - 06:46 AM

#6

on my toyota site, there was this same huge debate.

i sent a e-mail to K & N, they assured me that they filter just as well as anyone else. if the filter is clean and properly oiled. it offers just as much protection as anyone else's

but he also worked for K & N.

i have used K & N in every vehical i have owned. never had a problem.

got better low end grunt in my little honda civic.

my tacoma, i really can't notice a difference but its got a K & N

cheers
Warts

  • byggd

Posted April 30, 2008 - 03:59 PM

#7

The search doesn't seem to be working but there was one thread linked to an independent report showing the flaws of the K&N.

  • wartsnuff

Posted May 06, 2008 - 07:56 AM

#8

The search doesn't seem to be working but there was one thread linked to an independent report showing the flaws of the K&N.


OooOO i would like to see that link... i still have the K & N filter guys e-mail address. i would send him to it.

cheers
Warts

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  • canyonclimb

Posted May 06, 2008 - 08:15 AM

#9

Cars, yes I think the k & n works fine.... dirty motorcycles, I wont ever use one. My bro-in-law just spend 3k rebuilding his engine from dust that got through the k & n filter. Of course we were riding sand dunes, so it is more dusty/sandy. I road side by side with him most of the day and never had a problem with my stock foam filter.

  • BajaFool

Posted May 06, 2008 - 11:28 AM

#10

Ah!!!!! The never ending K&N filter discussion. I love it!! I also enjoy the never ending best spark plug and engine oil discussions. K&N filters suck dirt. Do a Google search using the above phrase and you will find an endless number of entries, see this link for some very interesting photos of the amount of dirt that is sucked into an automobile motor after passing through various filters including K&N http://www.bobistheo...er/airtest3.htm

K&N on their own website will tell you that they developed their product for racing applications. Racing is a sport that requires max horsepower at all costs. Their filters are designed to flow the maximum that can be achieved and still provide some filtration. That is because racers tear their engines down and re-build them sometimes after every race or after several races. They are not looking for the same reliability that you would expect out of your daily driver. If you look at the test results, using the SAE guidelines for paper filters compared to K&N filters, you will see that paper filters work better at trapping dirt than K&N style filters with VERY little trade off in reduced air flow. When you look at the air flow that passes through the paper filters and you compare that with the volume of air that is required by the engine at any given RPM, you will see that 1. the paper filter has very good dirt capturing characteristics and 2. a more than adequate airflow for the entire engine RPM range. So, in your car/truck daily driver you are wasting your time trying to provide additional airflow to the motor which can't utilize it and introducing harmful dust particles, when you install a K&N style filter.

The data on auto engines obviously translates over to motorcycle engines and their use in racing and play riding. If you want to have good filtration, more than adequate airflow and not ingest water into your motor, then stay with the stock foam filter. If you want to increase airflow, increase dirt ingestion and HUGELY decrease the life of the motor use a K&N style filter. If you think that opinion two is for you, then here is a money saving tip, just leave the filter off of the motorcycle.

  • byggd

Posted May 06, 2008 - 11:39 AM

#11

Thanks bajafool. I knew there was a link out there someplace showing the flaws of the K&N.

  • halfthebeast

Posted May 06, 2008 - 11:46 AM

#12

Sorry to threadjack, but on related issue...

In addition to a well oiled stock (or twinair) filter, I will put a fresh short smear of grease just inside the bottom of the air boot close to where the filter goes each time I do a filter change. I put it where it is easily accessable so each time I pull out the dirty filter, I can take a rag and wipe out the contaminated grease. Most times after a dusty race you can see in the grease just how much dust will actually get past an oiled stock filter. It's just a little extra insurance that catches some more of the dust before it goes into your carb.

  • wrtrailhog

Posted May 07, 2008 - 11:44 PM

#13

I don't know about fine dust but I just went to the sand dunes and was worried about my k&n sucking sand. Got home, pulled my filter and found to my suprise that the air box was full of sand and there was none past the filter. I have had sand get past stock foam filters in the past. I'm not sure but I guess that if yamaha likes foam, you can't go wrong with foam.

  • wartsnuff

Posted May 08, 2008 - 06:39 AM

#14

Ah!!!!! The never ending K&N filter discussion. I love it!! I also enjoy the never ending best spark plug and engine oil discussions. K&N filters suck dirt. Do a Google search using the above phrase and you will find an endless number of entries, see this link for some very interesting photos of the amount of dirt that is sucked into an automobile motor after passing through various filters including K&N http://www.bobistheo...er/airtest3.htm

K&N on their own website will tell you that they developed their product for racing applications. Racing is a sport that requires max horsepower at all costs. Their filters are designed to flow the maximum that can be achieved and still provide some filtration. That is because racers tear their engines down and re-build them sometimes after every race or after several races. They are not looking for the same reliability that you would expect out of your daily driver. If you look at the test results, using the SAE guidelines for paper filters compared to K&N filters, you will see that paper filters work better at trapping dirt than K&N style filters with VERY little trade off in reduced air flow. When you look at the air flow that passes through the paper filters and you compare that with the volume of air that is required by the engine at any given RPM, you will see that 1. the paper filter has very good dirt capturing characteristics and 2. a more than adequate airflow for the entire engine RPM range. So, in your car/truck daily driver you are wasting your time trying to provide additional airflow to the motor which can't utilize it and introducing harmful dust particles, when you install a K&N style filter.

The data on auto engines obviously translates over to motorcycle engines and their use in racing and play riding. If you want to have good filtration, more than adequate airflow and not ingest water into your motor, then stay with the stock foam filter. If you want to increase airflow, increase dirt ingestion and HUGELY decrease the life of the motor use a K&N style filter. If you think that opinion two is for you, then here is a money saving tip, just leave the filter off of the motorcycle.


this is well written response! thanks :eek:

i am too cheap at the moment to buy a K & N for my bike anyhow. but now i will buy another stock filter instead. so i can flip and wash at my leasure!

cheers
Warts

  • grayracer513

Posted May 08, 2008 - 01:55 PM

#15

K&N oiled fabric elements actually filter better than oiled foam filters do IF they are correctly cleaned and re-oiled. And that's the problem.

Additionally, because the cross section of the media has so little density, the usable service life of the filter before it begins to allow dirt to pass through the element is lower, and they must be cleaned each time they are used in very dusty environs.

Oiling is the absolute most important facet of either type, and is is fact the only reason foam filters will stop anything. You can actually shake sand through a dry foam filter. It is only the oil that traps the dirt. But with foam, you can easily knead and squeeze the media to work the oil thoroughly through it (not that everyone does). This is not possible with K&N's, and you have to either use messy dip-and-drain methods or rely on sprays. In any case, the usual downfall of K&N filters is that they aren't correctly oiled, and they aren't correctly oiled because it's just too damn hard to do.

  • SJMC_DON

Posted May 08, 2008 - 02:12 PM

#16

this is well written response! thanks :p

i am too cheap at the moment to buy a K & N for my bike anyhow. but now i will buy another stock filter instead. so i can flip and wash at my leasure!

cheers
Warts


Have you checked into the price of an OEM filter.... $50+:eek:

Go Moose:thumbsup:

  • grizzlyadams

Posted May 10, 2008 - 08:37 PM

#17

thanks for the info bajafool. I took my K&N off about a week ago and really I dont notice a difference in the stock foam filter and the k&n power wise. Probably wont put it back on after all that ive been hearing. $80 well spent eh? Oh well live and learn. Thanks for the input everyone.
-Marcus




 
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