Starter motor = Nightmare!


10 replies to this topic
  • dazzabb

Posted April 26, 2008 - 07:37 AM

#1

This arvo started to get the often posted click from the starter relay or starter turning but not engaging.

Took the motor off and replaced the bushes, the bushes were well worn and a lot of black dust around so cleaned it all up and re-soldered the one bush and screwed down the other- bench tested motor with the WR battery it worked fine - happy days.

Put the ****er back together, had to remove the carb to do it and still have the same problem, sometimes the relay just clicks sometimes the starter turns but will not engage.

I connected my car battery to eliminate the WR battery but had the same problem.

So as I now see it maybe the starter motor is faulty, but when it does turn why will it not engage?

I took off the cover from the torque limiter and I can see that spin when the starter sometimes turns but still not engaging?

Is it the dreaded starter clutch or starter motor or both of the wee bastards?

How to trouble shoot the starter motor now?

Of course I had to pinch the crankcase gasket and get a floor full of Motul 300V just to add to my woes.

How much is a new starter motor for an 05 anyone?

  • William1

Posted April 26, 2008 - 08:35 AM

#2

Are you sure it is not the starter relay? The contacts get burned and fail to make good contact.

If you are dead positive the starter motor is the culprit, you can have the commutator turned, mica cut down and tested with a growler at an Auto electric shop. Assuming the windings are good, this should make it like new.

  • dazzabb

Posted April 27, 2008 - 01:11 AM

#3

No I'm not sure, I'm trying to be methodical but I'm not real clued up about this stuff.

So far eliminated the bushes, battery, relay.....

I tested the relay with 12v battery and multimeter and it worked ok, but whether or not it works all the time? This is the relay behind the airbox on the rear fender rail.

I still don't understand why the starter motor, when it occasionally works wont turn the crank though?

  • William1

Posted April 27, 2008 - 03:20 AM

#4

A relay can pass voltage but not amperage (current). Sometimes, repeated pressings of the putting, forcing the relay to open and close several times will 'self clean' to a cerain extent and make sufficient contact to send power. Another potential issue is a bad starter motor, one that has a dead spot. The auto electric shop 'growler test' can determine this. Some times, when the button is pressed, a sharp rap with the plastic handle of a screw driver will nudge the motor out of the bad spot fo this starting attempt.

Hard part here is there are two potential causes of the same symptom. You need to do the proper tests Vs. just replacing stuff.

  • dazzabb

Posted April 27, 2008 - 06:15 AM

#5

Ok thanks William.

Guess I'll start by borrowing a relay from a friends WR and try that.

Do you know if all the WR 450's use the same relay? Or the 250's for that matter?

Then I'll try the auto shop for the starter motor test.

As for the starter motor when I started to re-assemble yesterday, I left off the torque limiter so that I could see if the motor shaft was spinning or not. Sometimes after I hit the starter button it would spin, other times it would not, but when I nudged the motor shaft a wee bit with a rubber mallet it would always spin immediately after I tried to start it - is this symptomatic to the dead spot you are referring too?

:thumbsup: I have just thought that maybe I am checking the wrong relay!!
The relay right next to the battery and the relay behind the airbox near the rear fender, are both critical for starting?
Its not clear in the manual why there needs to be two of them.
Sorry for that dumb question but electrickery has never been my strong point.

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  • William1

Posted April 27, 2008 - 06:52 AM

#6

Ok thanks William.

Guess I'll start by borrowing a relay from a friends WR and try that.

Do you know if all the WR 450's use the same relay? Or the 250's for that matter?

Then I'll try the auto shop for the starter motor test.

As for the starter motor when I started to re-assemble yesterday, I left off the torque limiter so that I could see if the motor shaft was spinning or not. Sometimes after I hit the starter button it would spin, other times it would not, but when I nudged the motor shaft a wee bit with a rubber mallet it would always spin immediately after I tried to start it - is this symptomatic to the dead spot you are referring too?

:thumbsup: I have just thought that maybe I am checking the wrong relay!!
The relay right next to the battery and the relay behind the airbox near the rear fender, are both critical for starting?
Its not clear in the manual why there needs to be two of them.
Sorry for that dumb question but electrickery has never been my strong point.


If nudging the starter motor is what it takes to get it going, then yes, that is a dead spot. could be the commutator on the wotor, could be with windings. The auto electric shop growler test will confirm this.

Two relays, one for ignition on and the other to engage the starter motor. The relay with the big, thick wires is the starter relay.

  • dazzabb

Posted April 27, 2008 - 04:42 PM

#7

Auto-shop it is then once starter assy is removed.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Daz

  • dazzabb

Posted May 22, 2008 - 11:26 PM

#8

Confusion plus in my workshop!!

Got the starter motor back from the shop and put all back together.

The starter motor now always spins when I hit the button so that has cured one problem but it will not engage and turn the engine.

The fact that the starter motors spins everytime has also eliminated any fault with the relays.

I checked the starter clutch as per the manual and it is OK.

So if the starter motor, relays, starter clutch are all Ok what else can be causing the starter motor to not turn the crank?

Torque limiter maybe? But how to test it?

Daz

  • whacker99

Posted May 24, 2008 - 01:47 PM

#9

Well sounds like the same problems I had......

Are you positive on the Starter Clutch.....mine seemed fine also but I was down to the last part to replace (I replaced all the items except the starter clutch) and guess what it was THE STARTER CLUTCH....

It spinned the proper way when I checked it by just removing the side case and caught when it was suppose to but you can't check it when it is under load when trying to start the bike.

I replaced the starter clutch and it solved all the problems....when mine went first the starter crapped out because the starter was spinning while I was riding in the Blue Hills in Utah...when I slowed down I could hear the fringin thing spiinning...so I feel your frutration 100%

Unfortunately mine cost me 2 new starters before I finally went and took off the Starter Clutch (expensive stubborness)...

Hope this helps...

  • chrispy1202

Posted May 24, 2008 - 06:26 PM

#10

If your starter motor is spinning, but the engine isn't turning over, the starter clutch is toast. Everything between the motor and the starter clutch is just gears. I had a burned spot on my commutator and had to replace the starter. With a new starter installed, the starter clutch would intermittently work. I replaced it and now everything is wonderful again.
Cheers
Chris.

  • dazzabb

Posted May 24, 2008 - 11:45 PM

#11

Whacker + Chrispy thanks for the advice.

What you said about checking the Starter Clutch under load - thats what I was doing.

I didn't realise it had to be removed to check it.

Better get a price for a new starter clutch then...........bugger.




 
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