Anyone Read Less Noise = More groun in BlueRib Mag
Posted November 17, 2002 - 09:50 AM
This is one topic that just won't die, really the Pandora's box of the dirt bike world.
p.s. - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Peace Eh - P.Z.
Posted November 17, 2002 - 10:26 AM
I fail to see your point load pipes saves lives,
How does that apply in the woods?
or is it that the bear your running up on, will hear you and pull over?
Pete I dont mean this directed towards you , but that argument, noise saves lives is based on ignorance to the facts and ignorance to the reality we face as a community of riders, street or dirt
In fact here is the link to the article
Less Sound = More Ground from Bill Dart Blue Ribbon Mag
Posted November 17, 2002 - 10:59 AM
Peace Eh - P.Z.
Posted November 17, 2002 - 11:08 AM
Posted November 17, 2002 - 11:42 AM
I am all for QUIETER exhausts. However, I haven't read or seen anything that is substantially quieter than the stock exhaust without the horsepower robbing feature of the stock plug. I have heard the Vortips reduce the noise substantially by pointing the noise down, but how much real noise reduction is there? I don't need an expensive aftermarket exhaust as the power with the stock exhaust is plenty for me. I would, however, purchase an exhaust that was VERY quiet and didn't rob all the horsepower like the stock plug.
Posted November 17, 2002 - 12:02 PM
I just wanted to share my experience on noise issues with everyone reading this post.
Posted November 17, 2002 - 12:06 PM
Posted November 17, 2002 - 06:38 PM
Posted November 18, 2002 - 05:46 AM
This is a pipe dream!!! Come on, do you really think that "Less sound = More ground" ??? Will a closed riding area reopen because of a bike being 5 DB quiter?? Nope. Will we change someones mind because of this? Nope.
Don't get me wrong, we need to do what we can to keep the noise down. It's even more comfortable to ride this way for me. Guys that don't do maintaince on thier bikes and run 120 DB are the ones that hurt us.
But don't think for a minute that we will get "more ground" for our efforts, or it will keep a riding area open that is being attacked. The sound issue is not the main issue here. Mr Dart even eludes to that in his opening paragragh.
Lets work towards quiter bikes, with in reason, but realize the reality of it all.
Posted November 18, 2002 - 07:53 AM
BBW Yup meant to pete but not in a negative
You are correct, that is the premise of why I set the post, DIALOG. the issue is noise and the article stated that.
Question for responders:
DId you read the article before you commented?
I did not set the title I only copied what Bill Darts commentary was titled. And I don not believe the by line is = to getting back any ground lost. I believe if you READ THE ARTICLE, that it is meant entirely on getting the noise issue off the plate and from the eco nazis arsenal.
You are correct there are more responsible riders then non responsible, this is bad for us. But I think it this way
1: The industry must comply with Noise issues
2: Make pipes for both Race and Enthusiast that comply
3: Take action join groups like Blue Ribbon get involved
What I mean by Item 2 is simple Race Pipe Specs per what AMA endorses 98db
Enthusiast Pipes 96 and below. One thing the article stated was todays thumpers have more power then any of us will every use. Loosing a couple of HP to make it less noticeable in the woods is a good thing. Besides the technology is there and an OEM can build pipes that keep things quite and keep the same HP level.
Posted November 18, 2002 - 08:38 AM
Don't know if we are reading the same article or not, and yes I did read the one the link is too, have you seen that one??
While Mr Dart conciedes in that article (that I read) that the enviros are using the noise issue to a greater means, the removel of us from public lands, he also goes on to make some statements I believe to be false, as you did also.
The idea of these bikes having more power than any of us will use. Tell ya what, come to Colorado and I will take you to some 13000' passes and you can ride a bone stock bike or one that has a free flowing exhust system and then we will see if you want more power. I have ridden both and I notice a differnce as have many people. Sand conditions are another where horsepower rules.
But the main point is that to take the sound issue away from the greenies it will cost us all money to make our bikes perform and be quite. So we spend an extra $500 and what has changed, 4 - 10 DB. Do think the greenies won't complain about the noise still, not hardly.
While it is responsible for us as a community, the dirtbikers of the world, to do the things within reason to make the woods a "multi-user" place I think we need to stay within reason. So lets do what we can "reasonably" do to make our bikes quite but to think that this will keep riding areas open or quite the greenies is a pipe dream.
Posted November 18, 2002 - 08:55 AM
Now all that in and of itself isn't so bad. But it shows that they aren't in it for a sport. They're like gadflys. The kind of guy that goes to a car race to see an accident or a Raiders game to start a fight. So when the riding area is shutdown, they just find someplace else to drink beer. Every place that has a problem it you see these jokers standing out like a sore thumb!
So inspect my bike, test the noise and smoke. But if you do then enforce it and toss out these losers!!!
Posted November 18, 2002 - 10:51 AM
My problem is not with buying a $400 silencer that stifles my horsepower and empties my wallet. It's not the noise regulations by themselves (as I also said before, I will get a FMF Q series silencer). It is that we never get anything in return such as AN AGREEMENT THAT CANNOT BE LATER CHANGED TO FURTHER LOWER SOUND LEVELS TO A POINT THAT WE CANNOT OR WILL NOT COMPLY. AN AGREEMENT THAT FREEZES OTHER THINGS SUCH AS AVAILABLE ACREAGE. AN AGREEMENT THAT REQUIRES THAT THE GREENS WHO ARE DOING ALL THE COMPLAINING GET UP OFF THEIR LEAD @$$&$ AND PROACTIVELY DO AS MUCH FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AS OFF-ROAD CLUBS, HUNTERS, AND FISHERMEN DO. WE VOLUNTARILY CLEAN UP VAST STRETCHES OF DESERT, OUR GREEN STICKERS PAY FOR "TRAIL MAINTENANCE", OUR HUNTING LICENSES PAY MIGHTILY TOWARD HABITAT ENHANCEMENT, AND OUR FISHING LICENSES PAY THE SALARIES OF THE VERY RANGERS WHO ARE WRITING US TICKETS SO WE CAN PAY EVEN MORE INTO THIS CORRUPT INBRED SYSTEM.
We pay dearly for the greenies to be able to mouth off from the comfort of their living rooms and cell phones and computers and order around the people whose salaries WE pay.
The organizations that are on the front lines of this battle should now be on the OFFENSIVE. They need to start making some demands of their own instead of meekly sitting on their hands and choosing which demands we are going to give in to, and offering the same old defensive strategies that we have proven since the 70's DO NOT WORK!!!!!!!
Bill Dart is probably reading this post already. He and I don't agree on everything, but we are still on the same side of the fence, and we agree on far more than we disagree on. Bill is on the front lines, he needs your support, and he needs to hear from all of us. If you care about this sport, and don't already belong to one of the land use organizations, please DO SO NOW. It takes millions of dollars to fight legal challenges such as these, and they need the money.
And Bill, if you have ever listened to what your constituency is saying, please do so now. GO OFFENSIVE WITH THIS ISSUE AND WE WON'T HAVE TO CONTINUALLY GIVE UP SMALL BITES AT A TIME UNTIL THE WHOLE THING IS DOWN THE TUBES! If the greenies are the ones on the defensive, trust me, noise WILL NOT BE THE ISSUE!
Posted November 18, 2002 - 11:08 AM
Posted November 18, 2002 - 03:07 PM
#1 Join an organization (i.e. Blue Ribbon Coalition)
#2 write letters
Posted November 18, 2002 - 06:41 PM
OK so noise ordanances weren't mentioned in this link, but as stated before,their main goals are obvious and the sound this is just another chip taken out of the rock. I haven't found a noise ordance here in NY (yet) but I've found that once CA passes this type of thing others are soon to follow. I haven't exhaused my links for the northeast yet so I'll keep reading...In the mean time GET INVOLVED before we're forced into riding electric dirt bikes! (Now that would be a heavy bike).
Posted November 18, 2002 - 07:15 PM
Is there even one un-biased independent study out there that proves off-road motorized recreation causes any measurable environmental impact? If some greenie's wet dream came true and magically there were no more off-roaders, does any one think for an instant that there would be any noticable improvement in the Earth's environment? Not a chance! If these bastards were ACTUALLY concerned about noise and emissions then why aren't they protesting en'masse at every major commercial airport in North America? I guess those whisper-quiet jumbo jets puking raw fuel and TONS of hydrocarbons daily into the upper atmosphere don't bother them so much. So you will have to excuse me if I don't think that anyone making thier bike quieter is even going to begin to make any kind of a difference.
Maybe I should just place my order now for those less-aggressive, earth-friendly, not-so-knobby tires. Sheesh!
Peace Eh - P.Z.