How to: Service 2008 Steering Damper (lots of pics)

Started by armourbl, Apr 02 2008 07:23 PM

101 replies to this topic

aaron9696024

Posted 02 December 2009 - 09:52 PM

#81

stock turned all the way up was okay.
I put mobil 1 10-30 in mine and i dont like it. It was an improvement when going straight but on single track it makes the bike feel heavier in the turns and you can feel how much stiffer it is when its cold outside.
I tried the spare washer valve change with 5wt oil and it feels about stock.

What i want to know is how could i valve this for Very Weak low speed dampening and very strong high speed dampening? this is my first time moving shims around in a dampner/shock device i find it rather fascinating and hard to find apply-able information.

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armourbl

Posted 03 December 2009 - 06:19 AM

#82

aaron9696024 said:

It has been my experience that you can revalve this all you like, it will never act like a steering dampner like you might expect. It has a job to do, but not in the same manner as other mainstream designs. I now run a GPR stabilizer on both of my 2008's to augment the stock unit.

ben

theDogger

Posted 03 December 2009 - 07:00 AM

#83

Basically it is like this. The larger grouped shims are the Low Speed and the taper is the High Speed but remember that at full force the stack works as one. So for example

OEM STACK
17 x 1.6 (washer)
1-16 x 0.2 (inactive)
1-11.5 x 0.2 (HSC)(clamp or pivot)
1-12 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-13 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-14 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-15 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-17 x 0.15
2-17 x 0.2
Piston
3-17 x 0.15 (LSC)
1-16 x 0.15 (HSC)
1-10 x 0.15 (HSC)
1-9 x 0.2 (HSC)(clamp or pivot)
1-16 x 0.15(inactive)
1-16 x 0.2(inactive)
17 x 1.6 (washer)

MODDED STACK
17 x 1.6 (washer)
1-17 x 0.15(inactive)
1-16 x 0.2 (inactive)
1-12 x 0.2 (HSC) (clamp or pivot)
1-13 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-14 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-15 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-11.5 x 0.2 (x-over)
2-17 x 0.2
Piston
3-17 x 0.15 (LSC)
1-16 x 0.15 (HSC)
1-10 x 0.15 (HSC)
1-9 x 0.2 (HSC)(clamp or pivot)
1-16 x 0.15(inactive)
1-16 x 0.2(inactive)
17 x 1.6 (washer)

Not saying that this is the stack that I would recommend but you get the point. :thumbsup:

theDogger

Ed2006CRF450R

Posted 03 December 2009 - 12:48 PM

#84

armourbl said:

+1 :worthy:

but I am a Scott's man, myself...

aaron9696024

Posted 03 December 2009 - 01:21 PM

#85

i don't have the cash for a scotts yet.... the heavier oil was good for straight line and the light is good for turning. Im trying to replicate a scotts as close as i can untill i can buy one. stiffening the high speed and lessening the low speed would make it more scotts like. also having much more rebound then compression would make it more "scottslike"

kwoody51

Posted 03 December 2009 - 05:39 PM

#86

The reason that it can never be like a scotts is do the mounting position. Since it mounted in line with the steering head and perpendicular to the handlebars the bars and front wheel can move several inches while the damper hardly moves.

This is part of the reason why you can feel more resistance toward the end of the stroke and when the handlebars are close to full lock. This is where the dampener moves more for a given handlebar movement and thus is displacing more oil and thus has more resistance.

With a Scotts the dampener moves the same (displaces the same about of oil) regardless of the positions of the handlebars.

CRF150Rfreak

Posted 03 November 2010 - 01:16 PM

#87

For the past month I've been trying to build up the nerve to take apart my HPSD that I'm installing on my CRF150R so I could add heavier oil. The came your brilliant post! Thanks man

chrismxer

Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:57 AM

#88

Does anyone have the hpsd 2009 or 2010 valve stacks?

bomax

Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:46 PM

#89

i just took my 2011 apart and redid the oil,stock it had a airpocket in it,i replaced the oil with 10wt.made a differance by feel for sure but not a huge amount like i thought i would,next time i will change the valving.heres a few pics of the 11 version.

Posted Image

Posted 23 April 2011 - 12:27 PM

#90

Just did this on my 08. Great write up, had no problems whatsoever and it feels much better then before. I used 15W oil. Cheers

pajnich393

Posted 28 April 2011 - 04:54 PM

#91

I just rebuilt mine. put 10w in it and its a big difference. I notice in the sand it tend not to knife as much..

Shawn_Mc

Posted 29 April 2011 - 04:18 PM

#92

You guys that like the Scotts Dampers...

If you notice how the damper is valved, its heavier to one side than the other.

You could change the valving so its equal in both directions. Your shim stacks would simply be symmetrical.

Quote

Im trying to replicate a scotts as close as i can untill i can buy one. stiffening the high speed and lessening the low speed would make it more scotts like. also having much more rebound then compression would make it more "scottslike"

If you wanted more high speed with less low speed in the damper, you could build a 2 stage stack. The crossover would determine how much your low could blow off before the high kicked in and kept the bars in your hands.

Doggers example stacks are pretty good, but if you wanted more high, Id go to some .25's in the high. That would make a huge difference. Just kind wondering how much abuse the shaft and the mounts could take before failure...

impresario

Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:46 AM

#93

I'm trying to understand to logic behind the Doggers example.

17 x 1.6 (washer)
1-17 x 0.15(inactive)
1-16 x 0.2 (inactive)
1-12 x 0.2 (HSC) (clamp or pivot)
1-13 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-14 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-15 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-11.5 x 0.2 (x-over)
2-17 x 0.2
Piston
What's the reason to make that 1-17 x 0.15 inactive?

What change would make this stack?
17 x 1.6 (washer)
1-12 x 0.2 (HSC) (clamp or pivot)
1-13 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-14 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-15 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2
1-11.5 x 0.2 (x-over)
1-17 x 0.15
2-17 x 0.2
Piston

I'm going to mount 20mm offset tripleclamps so I'm trying to even more eliminate headshake on CRF250R 08

This is my first trial so any help's very much appreciated

theDogger

Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:58 AM

#94

impresario said:

I'm trying to understand to logic behind the Doggers example.

17 x 1.6 (washer)
1-17 x 0.15(inactive)
1-16 x 0.2 (inactive)
1-12 x 0.2 (HSC) (clamp or pivot)
1-13 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-14 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-15 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-11.5 x 0.2 (x-over)
2-17 x 0.2
Piston
What's the reason to make that 1-17 x 0.15 inactive?

What change would make this stack?
17 x 1.6 (washer)
1-12 x 0.2 (HSC) (clamp or pivot)
1-13 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-14 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-15 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2 (HSC)
1-16 x 0.2
1-11.5 x 0.2 (x-over)
1-17 x 0.15
2-17 x 0.2
Piston

I'm going to mount 20mm offset triple clamps so I'm trying to even more eliminate head shake on CRF250R 08

This is my first trial so any help's very much appreciated

the 17 is inactive because any shim that his larger than the clamp can no longer deflect. Thus being inactive.

Also if you are getting head shake and you think that it will be worse with the 20mm clamps. Think again. I run a set of 20mm Pro Circuit clamps and never have had head shake issues, it is your suspension setup. It is either too soft or to stiff.

If you think that the damper is going to resolve it it will not it is just a band-aid!:bonk::bonk:

If you want help checkout my Showa DIY sticky in the CRF450 forum. I'd happy to help you out and get you setup....

theDogger:thumbsup:

impresario

Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:40 AM

#95

Thank you theDogger,
I'm inspired by your suspension sticky (I even have spare shock and forks) so revalving the little steering damper is just first step to understand the logic of the valving. I've been using the Scotts damper so this is just learning to do things by myself.

Do you think the stack I mentioned is worth of trying or it would be too stiff?

theDogger

Posted 21 June 2011 - 07:48 AM

#96

Thanks for the positive comments....if you need help let me know...

Now in regards to the Honda steering damper, it is not a Scotts so forget trying to get it to work that way.

I have found that at the track making it to stiff it will stand you up in the corners and ruts. I found this out the hardware...

Remember that quick movement are what will trigger the resistance.

So to me I wanted a little resistance but really was looking for help for late in the moto when my arms are shot on the rough straights.....works perfect!

theDogger:thumbsup:

akmcgregor

Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:58 PM

#97

Honda_250f_rider said:

Well, I emailed the picture of the valving in the steering damper to my local suspension guy. Told him that I am running 10 wt oil and have it at 2 clicks out. He said that with the shims that the damper comes with it can be stiffened up. This is what he said:

Here is the stock valving orientation:

Posted Image

And the modded one:

Posted Image

----

I got a chance to ride the bike on the track today. Didn't notice anything really different. But that is a good thing. If you notice too stiff dampening that aint a good thing. The bike felt good, nothing to complain about, so the damper was doing its job. I can get a more accurate comparo when I next trail ride.

These things are so, so easy to tear apart and change the oil. So I would do the valving change when you are next in it to do an oil change. Put in 10wt oil and set it at 2 clicks out.

I didn't notice the dampening to be too much, but haven't rode in the bush yet. I'm sure that I will notice the bike being more planted I guess. Without the valving change and 2 clicks out with 10wt oil, the bike felt nice and planted when ripping though the bush. Can't wait to see how much better it is with the valving change.

Inside diameter of shims 6.0mm

Anyway, hope this helps out some people.

Hi im new to this forum. i know this post is old but i was reading it and pulled my damper apart on my 08 crf450x and my valve stack is different to the one pictured. Any idea's? I cant put a picture on here cause i dont know how.

MXandSXracer21

Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:03 PM

#98

Valving stack is likely different due to your stack being more suited for off road (i.e. trails, desert, etc.) whereas the one pictured is better suited for MX.

MXandSXracer21

Posted 20 October 2011 - 07:46 PM

#99

Well I picked up one of the dampers for my 05 CRF450R for VERY CHEAP. I still need to get the bracket kit for it though. I am going to rebuild it probably next week.

I had planned on putting some thicker oil in it, maybe 15W? I ride primarily trails. I know its never going to be like a Scott's but I figured I would try and get the honda damper to at least provide some benefit for trails.

Does anyone have any valving stacks? I will probably try some out after I get some initial riding on the original valving.