1986 XR600R Dual Carb Starting Troubles/Stock jet size?


23 replies to this topic
  • mbjr1

Posted April 01, 2008 - 05:07 PM

#1

Hey guys, I just bought this 1986 XR600R last night. Its pretty much stock except for an after market filter (uni filter) and the guy said the baffle was removed from the muffler (its loud), also said the carbs were re-jetted.

The Good;
Bike runs great and shifts awesome
No oil leaks, (motor has not been cleaned in awhile, easy to see its not been leaking)
Sprockets, wheel bearings, shocks, brakes all seem good.
Engine not making any unusual noises.
Plastics are in decent shape for its age.
I got it for $600.

The Bad;
it took about 10 kicks to get it to turn over (it was still a little warm from an earlier run) then it died (no throttle given when it first started). about 15 kicks later same thing with half choke setting, started up then died.

My friend has a 92 XR600 and knows these bikes pretty well, he was the one trying to start it, we had to wait after about every five kicks because it was flooding (with some fuel coming out of the overflow hose). Finally it started after another 10-15 kicks but it does not want to idle on its own for more than 10 seconds without giving it some gas.

Once running its very strong, and runs very smooth... So after saying all of that, we are gonna open the carbs and check to see what jets are in there (anyone know the stock jet size for this bike, or what it should be at for 550 ft), also going to give clean the carbs a real good cleaning, and check the idle screw adjustment.

So what other things should we be looking at on this engine that would cause this hard starting condition? And does anyone know the stock jetting for these carburetors? (update, got the jet specs now)



Posted Image

  • Itchykawa

Posted April 01, 2008 - 06:58 PM

#2

Your problems sound carb related to me, but watch out for this - a friend had cherry one of those several years back and it ran out fine at speed but was ALWAYS a bitch to start and would sometimes just stop running at or near idle. People would get sick of kicking it 10 or 20 times every time this happened and sell it. Carb problems were eventually ruled out.

It went through the hands of several people I know. Each one was betting he would be able to solve the problem, but each eventually became frustrated and sold it a little cheaper than they bought it. The problem seemed to stem from a weak spark but no one was able to determine why because every part tested fine according to the service manual. And, because electrical parts can't be returned, you can't just buy them to "try" and return them if they didn't solve the problem. Only dealers can do that. :prof:

Finally, after about five years, a guy dug deep into his pocket and bought a stator (probably the most expensive electrical part on the bike), even though it had always tested fine, and that fixed it.

Moral - Make sure it isn't spark related.

  • butcharin

Posted April 02, 2008 - 09:42 AM

#3

The stators have been know to go because they break down with heat over time. Sounds like it could be a stick float if it seem to be flooding. Give the cabs a good cleaning. Mine likes to have the idle turned up to start and once it is warmed up it can be turned down again. Also if the valves have not been check it could cause hard starting.

It looks like a great bike. If you want to freshen up your plastic take some fine steel wool to it to remove the scratches and then coat in Mop n Glow it make it shine nice. Enjoy your ride.

  • litng1

Posted April 02, 2008 - 09:43 AM

#4

We are going to do the cheap things first with the carb.Clean jets out check float level etc..Its got good com and runs strong and will only idel with choke half on.
What jets do you guys run on a dual carb stock setup?Weak spark is hard to find sometimes as you just have to bite the bullet and buy the parts.

  • cleonard

Posted April 02, 2008 - 09:45 AM

#5

Finally, after about five years, a guy dug deep into his pocket and bought a stator (probably the most expensive electrical part on the bike), even though it had always tested fine, and that fixed it.

Moral - Make sure it isn't spark related.


Failure of the stator ignition coil appears to be by far the most common ignition related failure. First rule out everything else. If it still doesn't want to run like it is supposed to, it's time for the stator.

I rewound my own. Not overly technical, but not easy. If that is not for you either buy a stator or get one off of ebay.

  • butcharin

Posted April 02, 2008 - 09:52 AM

#6

Right now I am running the stock PJ but want to bump it up fro better starting. I think I am running a 132 in the main carb and 130 in the secondary with the secondary opening almost immediately after the second. It seem to be alright.:prof:

  • mbjr1

Posted April 02, 2008 - 01:43 PM

#7

Just putting this in here as a reference to my Dual carb setup

http://www.advrider....t=188797&page=6

  • mbjr1

Posted April 02, 2008 - 09:02 PM

#8

Can't believe how hard it is to find out the stock jetting for this bike (sea level)! I've looked everywhere and Google'd it to death, still no luck...:prof:

  • RipperFox

Posted April 02, 2008 - 10:32 PM

#9

165 B model
135 U model

60 slow/pilot jet

Pilot 2 5/8 turns out

PM me with your email, and I will send you the XR600R shop manual in PDF

  • pwrpapa

Posted April 03, 2008 - 03:05 AM

#10

STATOR = hard starting.....LOL
To many people think it's always a carb issue when in fact the carb is a reliable component. Weak spark is more likely the culprit.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • scalejockey

Posted April 03, 2008 - 04:02 AM

#11

Make sure you use a oem manual for the right year on the carb settings.If i recall 85 and 86 had different float specs and if you get them mixed up it won't start when it's warmed up.The clue was a the dribble out the overflow tube.(I had a 85). But..like everyone else says hear it could be lots of things.


or was that 84 & 85?? Jeez,i better go take my Geritol.

  • litng1

Posted April 03, 2008 - 05:13 AM

#12

It did have a little dribble out the tube when I tried starting it.Owner had it running before we got there.

  • 426_kid

Posted April 03, 2008 - 08:05 AM

#13

main is 122, the second carb is only a booster so it doesnt have a pilot jet only the one with the choke does but the pilot is 45.

  • Motosprtman

Posted April 03, 2008 - 10:12 AM

#14

I just paid for a new stator today from Ricky Stator. This is to install on my 86 XL600R,. It starts ok - but more kicks than I think it should take, and!!!!! I just installed a Dynojet Stage 1 carb kit and a 65 pilot (had a 62 pilot in it) I ran the air fuel screw about 2 1/4 turns out and installed a NEW FMF Powercore IV pipe (for an XR600R - bolts up fine just some spacer tweaks on the can mount) Moral of the story is more than likely an faulty ignition component that breaks down with heat - such as the stator. I am al;so goingto replace my CDI and coil and plug cap - to ensure the utmost in reliability and ease of starting.

There is a starting drill on the big singles too when kicking, gas on, decompressor lever pulled in - kick through 3-4 times, release the decompressor lever and find TDC with the kicstarter (heavy resistance is felt) Choke on, no throttle, and KICK like you mean it! if it does not start right away, do the drill again, if you smell fuel, open the throttle up completely and pull in the decompressor lever and kick it through 5 times or so, then try a restart without choke, if it lights engage some choke until warm.

  • mbjr1

Posted April 04, 2008 - 12:53 AM

#15

426 kid you were right on the money with the jets 122m both carbs and a 45 PJ. The bike also has a weak spark, most likely the strator as some of you have said.

Also the linkage on the carbs is set so that both carbs are coming on at the same time! I saw in another post that this is not a good thing, and it should be at about 1/3 to half throttle before secondary carb kicks in.:prof:

  • 426_kid

Posted April 04, 2008 - 09:51 AM

#16

426 kid you were right on the money with the jets 122m both carbs and a 45 PJ. The bike also has a weak spark, most likely the strator as some of you have said.

Also the linkage on the carbs is set so that both carbs are coming on at the same time! I saw in another post that this is not a good thing, and it should be at about 1/3 to half throttle before secondary carb kicks in.:prof:


that is correct. You can almost compare it to a newer 4 stroke set up only now on your one carb there is an accelerator pump instead of 2 carbs. another thing to look for it the linkage between the carbs if one of those o rings give out or stops sealing completely then that cause trouble to because there wouldnt be enough of a vacuum. I was getting bogging on mine so when i pulled the carbs off I replaced those o rings which are way cheap and the problem went away.

  • mbjr1

Posted April 04, 2008 - 09:40 PM

#17

You guys are giving me some great advice here, Thanks to all...

  • pwrpapa

Posted April 05, 2008 - 04:26 AM

#18

That's what friends are for.
take care,
pop's

  • 1cylable

Posted April 15, 2008 - 02:26 PM

#19

Your problems sound carb related to me, but watch out for this - a friend had cherry one of those several years back and it ran out fine at speed but was ALWAYS a bitch to start and would sometimes just stop running at or near idle. People would get sick of kicking it 10 or 20 times every time this happened and sell it. Carb problems were eventually ruled out.

It went through the hands of several people I know. Each one was betting he would be able to solve the problem, but each eventually became frustrated and sold it a little cheaper than they bought it. The problem seemed to stem from a weak spark but no one was able to determine why because every part tested fine according to the service manual. And, because electrical parts can't be returned, you can't just buy them to "try" and return them if they didn't solve the problem. Only dealers can do that. :thumbsup:

Finally, after about five years, a guy dug deep into his pocket and bought a stator (probably the most expensive electrical part on the bike), even though it had always tested fine, and that fixed it.

Moral - Make sure it isn't spark related.

My '87 XL600R had the same hard starting problem. Cleaned both carb jets, fuel filters. Spark at plug seemed OK, but a new stator fixed it. It now starts with one or two kicks.

  • Motosprtman

Posted April 16, 2008 - 05:52 AM

#20

Pretty much the same bike the XR / XL 600 (well kinda sorta) I did the Dynojet Stage 1 carb kit in my dual carbs (DJ gives you the mains and the new needles) and I installed a 65 pilot, 2 1/4 turns out on the fuel air screw (Sea level) runs great! starts ok... BUT! I am replacing the stator with a new one from Ricky Stator just to be on the safe and reliable side.

Hardest part is the removal and installation of the carbs, and getting the return spring wound into the proper position so that they slides function properly with a nice snap back to closed. You have to separate the carbs on the bench in order to remove the shaft that holds the slide which in turn enables you to get the slide out and remove the old needle and re-install the new ones. Breaking the carbs apart makes the return spring become unwound, wear gloves (thin leather one) and using your fingers wrap it back into position - it's a 180 degree wrap and it must be tight for the slides to function crisply with a nice snap back to cloased. DO NOT attempt to adjust the secondary opening linkage, it it preset at the factory and fine for 99.999% of all uses.





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