Oil level revisited (XRL)


47 replies to this topic
  • chewbacca2264

Posted March 30, 2008 - 05:25 AM

#21

Well like others I am completely baffled as to how much to add. My personal preference is to start with 2 quarts, then run a bit check....add 1/32 of a quart....run a bit more, check.....add 1/32 of a quart...run a bit, start to get a little pissed, check again while the level is now lower than when I started...:prof: :bonk: :confused: add 1/4 of a quart, run and check to notice that it is now back to the same level that I started with:foul: :ride: Now I get totally pissed and just throw the cap back in and take off........While going for a short ride I start to worry that I didn't add enough and need to check again so it is back to the garage, check again only to find that the damn thing now has less oil showing than ever before....;) :ride: add 1/4 of a quart more and finally give up knowing that I have added roughly the amount recommended by Honda and somewhere between a quart low and a quart high of everyone else who owns these things and goes through the same damn thing every oil change:bonk:


Tim

p.s. where the hell is that pencil when I need it!!!!:ride:

  • martinfan30

Posted March 30, 2008 - 09:34 AM

#22

The bike has to be at FULL operating temperature. Ridden for awhile, then brought back to the shop.

Turn off engine and IMMEDIATELY check the level.

2.07 qts. with new filter. Then that should be a given.

  • Norge

Posted March 30, 2008 - 09:38 AM

#23

Well like others I am completely baffled as to how much to add. My personal preference is to start with 2 quarts, then run a bit check....add 1/32 of a quart....run a bit more, check.....add 1/32 of a quart...run a bit, start to get a little pissed, check again while the level is now lower than when I started...:prof: :bonk: :confused: add 1/4 of a quart, run and check to notice that it is now back to the same level that I started with:foul: :ride: Now I get totally pissed and just throw the cap back in and take off........While going for a short ride I start to worry that I didn't add enough and need to check again so it is back to the garage, check again only to find that the damn thing now has less oil showing than ever before....;) :ride: add 1/4 of a quart more and finally give up knowing that I have added roughly the amount recommended by Honda and somewhere between a quart low and a quart high of everyone else who owns these things and goes through the same damn thing every oil change:


Do you check to see if the stove is on a few times before leaving the house?

  • Old Dog

Posted March 30, 2008 - 10:22 AM

#24

The bike has to be at FULL operating temperature. Ridden for awhile, then brought back to the shop.

Turn off engine and IMMEDIATELY check the level.

2.07 qts. with new filter. Then that should be a given.


I always check it at full operating temperature. I also routinely check it in-between oil changes, and with three quarts (actually they're Liters in Canada) it is at the exact same mark on the dipstick (full level line).

Again, I'll state, absolutely no overfill issues running an '06 XR650L with 3 Liters of oil in it.

None, nada, zip, zilch, zero, and it purrs like a kitten. :prof:

  • martinfan30

Posted March 30, 2008 - 10:24 AM

#25

I always check it at full operating temperature. I also routinely check it in-between oil changes and with three quarts (actually they're Liters in Canada) and it is at the exact same mark on the dipstick.

Again, I'll state, absolutely no overfill issues running an '06 XR650L with 3 Liters of oil in it.

None, nada, zip, zilch, zero, and it purrs like a kitten. :prof:


I am not doubting you brother at all!:bonk:

I agree more oil is better. I also am a firm beleiver in the fact that 2.06 qts was specified by Honda for a reason. Now, if I can just find that reason!

  • Old Dog

Posted March 30, 2008 - 11:05 AM

#26

I'm thinking that 2.06 Quarts is what's needed for the Crankcase. Anything above that would be in the downtube, which acts as a sort of oil tank/reservoir and would get circulated through the engine by the pump. I think as long as you don't overfill the downtube, you shouldn't have any overfill issues.

  • Bibleman

Posted March 30, 2008 - 11:33 AM

#27

You may be on to something there. I just checked my crankcase level and it was perfect. That was with 2 1/2 quarts in there, and the dipstick reading half way between top and bottom. I added another quarter of a quart and I'm calling it quits.

  • piedralone

Posted March 30, 2008 - 04:16 PM

#28

:prof: Just did mine, oil change, new filter, clean the down tube screen (still nothing on it) 9000 m. mark. Usually takes the recommended 2.6, put 2 qrts. ran it for a minute and checked, @ upper level. Took it for a 3 mi. ride still @ upper level. Oh well there's some in it, will check again tomrrow after work. Not going to sweat it. two qts. is plenty to start with.:bonk:

  • Kenzo

Posted March 30, 2008 - 06:28 PM

#29

just because your not blowing oil out your airbox via the crankcase breather or your not using oil from blowing it by the rings does not mean there are not problems or consequences.

i hope the people that overfill are not causing any potential problems...from foaming or air bubbles in their oil due to the crank spinning in oil, or increased oil/engine temps or power losses due to windage(parasitic losses)...

no where in my XRL manual does it state "fill oil to upper level"...unless ur dipstick is different than mine is says "upper" and "lower" NOT "full" and "add a quart"...the proper operating level is somewhere between the "upper" and "lower" levels...but appears to be somewhat variable most likely due to the way one changes (or drains) the oil.

if i were to SWAG it...common sence(for me) says add the specified amount, note the level and that is the proper level.

obviously everyone is free to do what they like...but "polling" or "suggesting" what the proper fill amount/level is or should be other than what the manual or engineers who designed the motor say...is wreckless IMO...:prof:

end rant...

:bonk:

P.S. i did find in the XXR Shop Manual were it states (paraphrasing) '...if the oil level is below the lower level add oil to bring it up to the upper level...' but we ALL know the XXL & XXR engines are unrelated :confused:

P.S.S. my XXL manual also states that the bulk of the oil is carried in the frame.

  • Bibleman

Posted March 30, 2008 - 06:47 PM

#30

Kenzo, some good thoughts there, but 2 quarts doesn't even get me to the lower line:excuseme: I'm pretty comfortable knowing that the engine level is exactly according to spec, even though my capacity is higher for some reason. The whole thing remains puzzling though.

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  • Old Dog

Posted March 30, 2008 - 07:11 PM

#31

just because your not blowing oil out your airbox via the crankcase breather or your not using oil from blowing it by the rings does not mean there are not problems or consequences.

i hope the people that overfilling are not causing any potential problems...from foaming or air bubbles in their oil due to the crank spinning in oil, or increased oil/engine temps or power losses due to windage(parasitic losses)...

no where in my XRL manual does it state "fill oil to upper level"...unless ur dipstick is different than mine is says "upper" and "lower" NOT "full" and "add a quart"...


You'll have to forgive me then, when I said the "full" mark, I meant the "upper level" mark. It's a common sense thing that the "upper level" mark would mean the "full" mark, I'm sorry if that seemed to have escaped your observational faculties.

the proper operating level is somewhere between the "upper" and "lower" levels...but appears to be somewhat variable most likely due to the way one changes (or drains) the oil.


I've measured it. The amount of oil it takes to bring the level from just below the "lower mark" to the "upper mark" is right around 1 Liter (just over 1 quart). This is just slightly under what the down tube on the frame holds. Again, common sense dictates that the crankcase holds right around 2 quarts and the down tube holds a little over 1 quart. As long as you don't go above the "upper level" on the dipstick (over 3 quarts oil total) you won't experience overfilling issues.

obviously everyone is free to do what they like...but "polling" or "suggesting" what the proper fill amount/level is or should be other than what the manual or engineers who designed the motor say...is wreckless IMO...:prof:


It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out that the owners manual is referring to the amount of oil needed for the crankcase is 2.06 qts ...... or maybe it does.

There seems to be a lack of Rocket Scientists that own XR650Ls

P.S.S. my XXL manual also states that the bulk of the oil is carried in the frame.


Really? I'd like to see that. Because as I've already stated, I've measured it, and it's right around 1 Liter. There's no way that the frame holds more oil than the crankcase. It's pretty obvious the volume inside the crankcase is larger than the volume in the down tube of the frame.

  • Purcell69

Posted March 30, 2008 - 08:46 PM

#32

I think one thing that has been over looked here is the design of the lubrication system for the XRL being that of a dry sump system. The oil in the dry sump system is stored in a tank (the frame in this case), and is run through the motor, as drawn from the frame, and then returned to the frame. There is only so much capacity in the frame for the oil. When the bike is shut off, the oil drains back into the motor until the next start-up, at which point the tank in the frame refills.

I personally prefer to see the oil level higher on the dipstick, than lower. It goes back to the days of checking the oil level in our cars...low is bad, keep it topped up. There is a much wider "acceptable" range with the dry sump system. It is hard psycologically to feel "safe" with the oil level appearing to be "low".

-Joe

  • Old Dog

Posted March 30, 2008 - 08:51 PM

#33

I think one thing that has been over looked here is the design of the lubrication system for the XRL being that of a dry sump system. The oil in the dry sump system is stored in a tank (the frame in this case), and is run through the motor, as drawn from the frame, and then returned to the frame. There is only so much capacity in the frame for the oil. When the bike is shut off, the oil drains back into the motor until the next start-up, at which point the tank in the frame refills.

I personally prefer to see the oil level higher on the dipstick, than lower. It goes back to the days of checking the oil level in our cars...low is bad, keep it topped up. There is a much wider "acceptable" range with the dry sump system. It is hard psycologically to feel "safe" with the oil level appearing to be "low".

-Joe


Exactly Joe!!! :confused: :prof:

That's the whole point I've been trying to get across this entire thread!! :bonk:

  • XR650L_Dave

Posted March 31, 2008 - 07:46 AM

#34

As I've already stated, I've run my bike with three quarts in it since new in '06 and never had a problem with overfilling issues. When I was running the stock carb with the pollution crap on and all the vent hoses in the stock positions I had no blowback into the airbox, nor anywhere else. When I removed the stock carb and installed my Pumper and gave the crankcase it's own line and breather, I still don't get any blowback.

The frame on the 650L acts like an oil tank/reservoir, being a reservoir it holds the oil that isn't needed in the crank. As long as you don't go above it's capacity (which seems to be over 3 quarts) you won't have any overfill issues.

Seriously, I really don't care to argue the point. I know how much oil I put in my bike, and I know I have no overfilling issues with it. If you want to only run 2 quarts in yours, knock yourself out, it's no skin off my azz. :prof: :bonk:




Yes, as long as the sump has enough oil, and does not overflow, you're golden.

The upper limit is probably where the breather-tube coming off the head and going to the frame resevoir 'goes under'. Get the oil while operating much above that and oil may flow down into the head, get enough of that and maybe the sump could eventually overflow.

Considering the way I push mine (very low speeds pushing down 1/2 fallen trees) if it'll take 3 qts with no ill effects, I'll just run that, I think.


Dave

  • ghrati ghoti

Posted March 31, 2008 - 08:03 AM

#35

I just changed the oil, not the filter, in my 04 L. I put two quarts in and checked it after a 20 mile ride, (read fully up to temp), and it was right at the full mark. I have noticed that it has to be burning hot for the oil to read that high. A five miute ride around the neighborhood in first and second gear only brings it a little above the low line.:prof:

  • hondaxrl650

Posted March 31, 2008 - 08:52 AM

#36

I vote 3 quarts lol:thumbsup:

  • martinfan30

Posted March 31, 2008 - 08:59 AM

#37

I just changed the oil, not the filter, in my 04 L. I put two quarts in and checked it after a 20 mile ride, (read fully up to temp), and it was right at the full mark. I have noticed that it has to be burning hot for the oil to read that high. A five miute ride around the neighborhood in first and second gear only brings it a little above the low line.:prof:


This exactly what I do. You cannot get an accurate reading just by letting it idle in the shop. Have to get it hot and check.

  • Ferdinand

Posted March 31, 2008 - 03:22 PM

#38

This exactly what I do. You cannot get an accurate reading just by letting it idle in the shop. Have to get it hot and check.


:prof: Get it while it's hot!

  • piedralone

Posted March 31, 2008 - 03:46 PM

#39

Ok just checked the level after my daily 30mi. commute after changing it yesterday still at the upper level where it was yesterday. Drained the same way as always. Normally takes 2.06 only took 2 qts. thisd time.

  • martinfan30

Posted March 31, 2008 - 04:01 PM

#40

Ok just checked the level after my daily 30mi. commute after changing it yesterday still at the upper level where it was yesterday. Drained the same way as always. Normally takes 2.06 only took 2 qts. thisd time.


You can probably get that .06 quarts out by leaning the bike way over with the case drain plug pulled.





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