Another fat pig can't get started!!!


30 replies to this topic
  • mikesbaron

Posted March 27, 2008 - 12:39 PM

#1

All I'm getting is a consistent dribble of gas from the overflow tube. I have cleaned the jets and they are the correct ones for altitude. Pilot is a 65. I'm now thoroughly frustrated with this stupid pig and wondering why I ever bought a bike without e-start!

Here's my procedure (the bike has been setting for a few weeks.)
1. Gas on.
2. With bike on kickstand: hold compression release in and kick through 5-10 times, with no throttle. I'm giving it zero throttle through all my procedures.
3. Find kickstroke where it starts to feel stiff, then pull in compression release and push down for 1/4 of kickstroke, then letting the kick lever all the way back up.
4. Finally I kick down as hard as I can.

I'm getting nothing, except for every once every 50 tries a slight sputter.
I should mention I've tried this method with no choke, 1/2 choke and full choke.

I'm ready to throw this thing in the trash unless someone can help me out.

  • butcharin

Posted March 27, 2008 - 12:46 PM

#2

When was the last time you checked your valves? If they are out of spec it can be really hard to start. Just a thought.:prof:

  • cleonard

Posted March 27, 2008 - 01:19 PM

#3

First we are talking about a XR600? Single carb or dual?

Does it start better if you roll down a hill or push start?

You have something wrong. My XR usually starts first kink when warm and no more than a few cold.

Gas dribbling out of the carb means problems. Mine never does that. Sounds like a float of float valve issue.

What is your spark like? The stators on the XR600's are known to fail. They tend to degrade slowly and hard starting is a common symptom.

Mine doesn't really like true zero throttle. I usually turn the idle screw in a turn or two. This helps a lot. It is very difficult to just hold it open a little by hand.

  • mikesbaron

Posted March 27, 2008 - 01:28 PM

#4

XR650,no hills or bump starting available.
I know my float isnt stuck as I just had the carb bowl open, everything looked ok. What else might be makign it stick?

  • Sundog

Posted March 27, 2008 - 01:36 PM

#5

XR650,no hills or bump starting available.
I know my float isnt stuck as I just had the carb bowl open, everything looked ok. What else might be makign it stick?


That does not mean it isn't sticking when you close the carb up. I redid my carb only to have fuel pour out of the fuel overflo. I took the handle end of a screw driver and rapped it against the float bowl a couple of times and the float became unstuck and has worked fine ever since. It is not an uncommon thing to have happen.

If the float is not sticking it is then time to look at the condition of the float valve and float height.

  • Denn10

Posted March 27, 2008 - 02:23 PM

#6

the fuel dripping out your tube is what you need to fix, check the seat in the float. possibly some little something stoping it from seating completely and stopping the flow of fuel

  • cleonard

Posted March 27, 2008 - 02:29 PM

#7

XR650R - Discount the stator. The 650R stator is not in hot engine oil, like the other bikes. the hot oil is what kills the other stators, so your stator should be OK.

Fix that dripping gas. It could just be some crud on the needle valve that needs to be cleaned out.

  • EarlT

Posted March 27, 2008 - 04:36 PM

#8

have you tried Starting Fluid?
very quick spray.

Plug out - do you See SparK?

  • mikesbaron

Posted March 27, 2008 - 04:47 PM

#9

PART II

Just back from garage, took float completely off to inspect needle and seat again. Needle has dark teflon tip with no scratches or other deposits. Seat looks brassy. I even sprayed some cleaner inside for good measure.

I then took out spark plug and turn engine over a few times to blow out all the gas.
Then after gas dried grounded plug to engine and cranked, no spark.
Changed plugs to different/new one and got spark!

So either the spark plug was bad and/or I still have the overflow problem. Just to be sure is there any other reason that I should have gas overflowing my drain tube? Assuming my needle and seat are fine would the fact that my engine is flooded cause this overflowing?

  • cleonard

Posted March 27, 2008 - 05:38 PM

#10

The overflowing is either a bad needle/seat or a non floating float. Floats filled with gas don't do much good. It is usually very obvious.

Just a tiny amount of crud can jam the needle and lead to leaking. One trick that I do on my street bike when it's leaking is to turn off the gas and drain the bowl. Then leaving the drain open turn on the gas. Let it go for a second and then close the drain. Flushes the crud.

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  • porterdog

Posted March 28, 2008 - 05:15 AM

#11

First, what bike is this exactly- 650R, or 650L?

Second, I don't think kicking it over a bunch of times with the decomp pulled is doing anything for you on a cold start; it's good on a flooded bike, but with the decomp pulled you'll generate no vacuum and so won't get any priming action.

Third- are you raising your idle speed via the adjuster? This is critical IME.

The overflowing is either a bad needle/seat or a non floating float.



Must respectfully disagree- could also be improper float height. That's what it was on my 650R; took 4 iterations of adjustment before I got it not to piss out when leaned over even slightly. It's not an uncommon problem on the XRR.

Overfull bowl leads to flooding, not the other way around.

And I *love* starting fluid- often all you need to do is get the motor up to speed for a second to start correct fuel flow thru the carb.

  • Denn10

Posted March 28, 2008 - 05:40 AM

#12

have you tried Starting Fluid?
very quick spray.


i have never needed this on a bike, would stay away from this kinda stuff at all costs!! hell i started a 1972 bike that had been sitting for a long time and ill i had to do was clean the plug and some fresh fuel, it started in 5 minutes only two pushes down the driveway and it bumbstarted, no need for starting fluid at all.

  • gearloos

Posted March 28, 2008 - 06:03 AM

#13

I think Denn and porter are both right. If you have gas coming out the overflow, you have a bad needle/seat or out of adjusted float. Be it from a spec of dirt in there or from a deformed/damaged/warped(whatever) part messing with the needle or the float being out of adjustment.
I really don't know half as much as most these guys on here but thats what I would look at.
Things like a wet sparkplug just reaffirm it as well.

  • moto931

Posted March 28, 2008 - 07:02 AM

#14

I agree sounds like the float isn't set right. Had to re-adjust mine after I had the carb apart....put it back together and it pee'd gas...adjusted and it is fine. Also, I don't agree with your starting technique. Maybe I am wrong, but this works for me with a cold engine - warm is no problem (steps 4 -7).
1. turn on gas
2. blip throttle 3 times
3. Full Choke
4. Make sure switch is in "run" position if you have one.
5. push kick-starter through to TDC
6. pull compression release and push down 1/8 - 1/4 (just past TDC)
7. kick hard and it should light :prof:
8. if it doesn't light :bonk: , restart process from step 5 on, do not twist throttle.

Also, make sure your cap for your spark plug is on the wire all the way. I have seen these come loose, mostly from removing them and twisting them while doing so without realizing it.

  • rhino105amx

Posted March 28, 2008 - 08:50 AM

#15

I had an Electrolux aftermarket stator go bad and my bike would not start. Do you have an aftermarket stator?

  • mikesbaron

Posted March 28, 2008 - 08:51 AM

#16

It is a 650R.
I should clarify also that the gas doesn't automatically come out and start pooring. It only dribbles out as I start kicking and trying to get it started up. Once I stop with my kicking it stops itself.

What is stock float set at and what should the bike really be set at?

  • porterdog

Posted March 28, 2008 - 09:47 AM

#17

2. blip throttle 3 times


Does nothing with the stock carb.



Starting fluid is fine- I use it regularly on a variety of machinery and some heavy diesel motors have ether injection standard for very cold starts.

  • jdubb75

Posted March 28, 2008 - 11:17 AM

#18

When I bought my new 650R a few months ago I had a hard time starting it. It was completely stock at the time. I noticed that after kicking for a bit it would dribble a little gas from the overflow. I believe I was actually flooding it while trying to start it because I would catch myself blipping the throttle occasionally as I kicked. (instilled in my brain from my 2 stroke daze)

I've since re-jetted, uncorked and desmogged my pig and this is how I start it. It fires on first kick almost everytime.

- Turn on gas

- Full choke

- With ignition off I kick it slowly through a few times until I find TDC with no comp release.

- Pull comp release and bump past the hard spot

- Turn on ignition and give a good kick all the way through with no throttle. I will grab the front brake at the same time to prevent me from twisting the throttle.

If you try this a few time and it starts to pee a little then cut the ignition, turn off the choke, pull decomp lever, hold throttle wide open and kick through several times to clear the cylinder.

One thing that might be making it pee is that you are leaning it on the stand while trying it start it. From what I've read the float level is pretty high in stock form and having at that slight angle could be causing you problems. That's when I noticed mine dribble a little. I would get so tired from kicking that I starting using the stand to hold it up while I kicked away. If you can, hold it up straight when starting...this helped me.

A couple things that I would like to add to my already long post is that I find it easier to start if I shut off the gas if it's going to be setting for more than a few hours. Also, I don't know if your bike is uncorked or not. If not, uncork it. It is way easier to start when it can breathe the way it was meant to.

  • resurrection

Posted March 28, 2008 - 01:22 PM

#19

"Let it go for a second and then close the drain. Flushes the crud." :prof:


Can't we keep some of the best ideas for our selfs .Thats like a great old school trick man .

Let it be said that you people out there seaking wrenching info can not find better support.

  • resurrection

Posted March 28, 2008 - 01:36 PM

#20

As for the starting fluid ,I think it can help diagnose some carb issues as a pluged set of low speed jets maybe.

I would look for somthing to fix if it was needed for regular use.





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