What's next for Honda?


52 replies to this topic
  • Maroast

Posted March 11, 2008 - 02:52 PM

#21

I forgot to add their influenced by the insurance lobby to ban bikes.


Is that true? When I was younger, the insurance companies that didn't want to insure me simply quoted me insanely high rates...like $5000 a year for a 15 year old 4-cyl car.

I would tend to believe that insurance companies would simply jack their rates if motorcycles were such risky investments....it doesn't make much sense that they would want them banned...

  • pwrpapa

Posted March 11, 2008 - 03:21 PM

#22

You can go to bikers law blog an read about it for yourself.
Why would I fool you on a matter like this?
I'm talking about the health insurance lobby, not the lobby you're thinking of.

It looks like the big corporate health insurance companies are tying to shut us bikers and motorcyclist down! Well there is an answer; that answer is mandatory universal health care coverage, whereby everyone is required to have health care, and no health insurance company can turn down anyone for anything, including pre-existing conditions or so called recreational use on a motorcycle.

The bottom line is that if we do not fight this blatant discrimination as bikers and motorcyclist, we will be screwed if we get into an accident. There are a heck of a lot more car accidents than motorcycle accidents in this country! This type of discrimination of ridicules and uncalled for. Pretty soon we will have health insurance companies telling us they won’t cover us if we eat a certain type of food.

It is time to fight these bottom crawler health insurance companies who are screwing our nation, and most of all us.

You should try an educate yourself on the topic if you want to keep riding your bike. Don't walk around in the dark an act like it's a god given right for you to be able ride your motorcycle.

  • leghorn

Posted March 11, 2008 - 04:47 PM

#23

i think honda should build a snowmobile. With there sweet bikes it would be a awesome sled

  • J_T

Posted March 11, 2008 - 08:19 PM

#24

It looks like the big corporate health insurance companies are tying to shut us bikers and motorcyclist down! Well there is an answer; that answer is mandatory universal health care coverage, whereby everyone is required to have health care, and no health insurance company can turn down anyone for anything, including pre-existing conditions or so called recreational use on a motorcycle.

The bottom line is that if we do not fight this blatant discrimination as bikers and motorcyclist, we will be screwed if we get into an accident. There are a heck of a lot more car accidents than motorcycle accidents in this country! This type of discrimination of ridicules and uncalled for. Pretty soon we will have health insurance companies telling us they won’t cover us if we eat a certain type of food.


At least now you have the still SOME freedom to chose your doctor, when you can schedule your surgery, what hospital you can go. You will loose that when there is Socialistic Health care (like UK and Canada). You forget what drives a business and health care is a business, competition (keeps prices down), and incentive which keeps the workers working. In Socialized health care...when its 6pm and a guy comes in for an emergency surgery what keeps the staff there if they are on salary? The Hospitals will all be run by the government, because they will be writing the checks and since they are the only option, they will pay what they think its worth (just like medicare does now, (30% of the going rate)). I don't trust the government enough to let them control the Health care! You will call an operator and get sent to a doctor based on his schedule, and how many patients he has because they all will be paid the same, they have to spread out the work, you can't go to the "good" doctor or the "good" hospital, unless you wait on a list. Its back to first come first server not need based! It will be a monopoly of the system. Who pays for this since there is no out of pocket expense...Hell its the Government...where do they get their money? out of your pocket in the form of higher taxes somewhere, nothing for free. You are already supporting Medicare/Medicaid which makes up a minor percentage, think of the increase if you had to support them, plus EVERYONE else!

At least now you HAVE TO BE TREATED by LAW. No one in an emergency situation can be denied service. I work in the medical field and we have illegal immigrants in our hospital that have no health coverage and no payment that are getting treated by state's funds and eventually its cheaper to just discharge them than than to keep them until they pay and just cut the losses. That same situation goes on for others as well but its just not as obvious as the illegal immigrants.

If this system does get put in place...its going to hurt those that have insurance or coverage of some sort but it will help those that don't work, and are on welfare and use the Medicare/Medicaid system...BUT WAIT THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING GOVERNMENT HELP. DON'T GET ME WRONG...THERE ARE THOSE THAT TRULY NEED IT. but we all know about the abuse of it.

These laws have been trying to go into affect for many years. just another way to give the government more control and take it away from the people! I'm for my liberty and that includes what I drive, and what health care I choose! They have been trying to take away our right to own firearms for years but there are those that are fighting for us and there are more states with carry laws now than there have been in many years!

SUPPORT the groups that fight for us, like the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association)??? With fuel prices and Dual sports sales rising I don't foresee loosing our right to ride in a while! I know I'm going to fight the long arm, too keep my freedom in all areas.


One last thing to leave you thinking.
I know a CV doc who trained in the UK and had patients scheduled for months to get a CABG (Cardiac Artery Bypass Graft) surgery {here in the states someone has a bad heart attack...they are having emergency bypass (or the surgery they need) that night} because they were only allowed to perform 3 heart surgerys per day and they went in order from when they were put on the list. There were patients which got moved to the bottom of the pile so was rescheduled months later because for whatever reason they couldn't have the surgery done that day(may have eaten after midnight, didn't check in on time, labs off (can be fixed in a day or two) who knows) and many irreversibly suffered because of it. But it didn't matter (here in the US....if its the end of the day and they have already completed 4 or even 5 and an emergency comes in. they will do it because its the patients chance of life) Socialism didn't last in government and won't help health care...just the government who can set what it brings in and how much it pays out without excuses!

Thats the end of my rant..:thumbsup: .. it just ticks me off when I see someone willing to give up one of the few freedoms they have in this country that MOST in the world don't have! I agree its FAR FROM PERFECT and it needs help...but universal Health Care is absolutely not the answer! Wanna tell if a decision is going to screw you? look at who is trying to push for it...people only push what will benefit them...look at how they will benefit, then decide! Most pushing for this are rich and can get personal health care service because they can pay up front for it. (you get what you pay for) so they won't be affected by it, they will also get votes from those thinking they are looking out for them, AND those that will benefit when the Government gets more control and can have divisions of friends/people getting paid too much to be on a committee!

pwrpapa, you may not be condoning Universal Health Care...but you mentioned it so I thought I'd rant about it. Sorry

JT

  • xr650l bum

Posted March 11, 2008 - 08:37 PM

#25

Jt you seem bias. I agree that universal health care has issues that would have to be addressed before going forward, but for you to say health care prices are low because of competition your crazy. Take a look at a bill from a hospital. Half the time they just add crap on just to raise prices, thinking that people dont know and wont go over thier bill. Look at what they charge for bandages, que tips, asprin. Outragous! Once you go to the hospital they have you by the balls. Unless you are an illegal. If you are a citizen you will be headed for finacial ruin.

  • Thumpmeister

Posted March 11, 2008 - 09:02 PM

#26

I second that. :thumbsup:


x3 :eek:

  • Maroast

Posted March 11, 2008 - 09:18 PM

#27

JT has some very good, and realistic points....points that a lot of people who look towards universal health care glaze over...


Half the time they just add crap on just to raise prices, thinking that people dont know and wont go over thier bill. Look at what they charge for bandages, que tips, asprin. Outragous!


They don't "just add crap on" for the hell of it. Do you know what kind of money it takes to keep a hospital floating? That money has to come from somewhere....sure, in the stores a benadryl does not cost $250 a pill.

But the second you walk into that ER because of an allergic reaction, thats what you are going to be charged. Why? Even though you only needed one pill...you sat in a clean, warm/cool waiting room, saw the triage nurse, s/he took the time to assess you....then you have to go in the back and wait in another clean cool/warm room to be seen by a doc/NP/PA they have to assess you and then take the med from the med cart...which was filled by the pharm tech who was directed by the pharmacist....and the list goes on and on and on. See what really goes into that pill?

I'm not going to get into the inappropriate uses of emergency services, but this example of a $250 benadryl recently happened to a relative of mine....thats why I use it.



A good friend of mine recently had to go the the ER for a problem. A problem that did not warrant an ER visit. He was all pissed off because he got an $1800 bill and now has to pay it!!! Can you believe that?!?! He firmly believes in universal health care.....he also wasn't working for many many months because he wanted to "chill out" and fish.... who is suppose to pick up that $1800 tab because he doesn't want to work and just fish? I dont want to pay for that. Do you?

  • pwrpapa

Posted March 12, 2008 - 03:33 AM

#28

HAHA, I opened a can of worms here. LOL

  • pwrpapa

Posted March 12, 2008 - 03:46 AM

#29

I would like to see the U.S. get some of the models the European countries get.

  • Motosprtman

Posted March 12, 2008 - 05:12 AM

#30

Back to basics.

So what is HOnda planning on releaseing for 2009? the new wiz bang MT350 2 stroke? killer of KTM's and street legal too?

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • oilplug

Posted March 12, 2008 - 05:39 AM

#31

At least now you have the still SOME freedom to chose your doctor, when you can schedule your surgery, what hospital you can go. You will loose that when there is Socialistic Health care (like UK and Canada). You forget what drives a business and health care is a business, competition (keeps prices down), and incentive which keeps the workers working. In Socialized health care...when its 6pm and a guy comes in for an emergency surgery what keeps the staff there if they are on salary? The Hospitals will all be run by the government, because they will be writing the checks and since they are the only option, they will pay what they think its worth (just like medicare does now, (30% of the going rate)). I don't trust the government enough to let them control the Health care! You will call an operator and get sent to a doctor based on his schedule, and how many patients he has because they all will be paid the same, they have to spread out the work, you can't go to the "good" doctor or the "good" hospital, unless you wait on a list. Its back to first come first server not need based! It will be a monopoly of the system. Who pays for this since there is no out of pocket expense...Hell its the Government...where do they get their money? out of your pocket in the form of higher taxes somewhere, nothing for free. You are already supporting Medicare/Medicaid which makes up a minor percentage, think of the increase if you had to support them, plus EVERYONE else!

At least now you HAVE TO BE TREATED by LAW. No one in an emergency situation can be denied service. I work in the medical field and we have illegal immigrants in our hospital that have no health coverage and no payment that are getting treated by state's funds and eventually its cheaper to just discharge them than than to keep them until they pay and just cut the losses. That same situation goes on for others as well but its just not as obvious as the illegal immigrants.

If this system does get put in place...its going to hurt those that have insurance or coverage of some sort but it will help those that don't work, and are on welfare and use the Medicare/Medicaid system...BUT WAIT THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING GOVERNMENT HELP. DON'T GET ME WRONG...THERE ARE THOSE THAT TRULY NEED IT. but we all know about the abuse of it.

These laws have been trying to go into affect for many years. just another way to give the government more control and take it away from the people! I'm for my liberty and that includes what I drive, and what health care I choose! They have been trying to take away our right to own firearms for years but there are those that are fighting for us and there are more states with carry laws now than there have been in many years!

SUPPORT the groups that fight for us, like the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association)??? With fuel prices and Dual sports sales rising I don't foresee loosing our right to ride in a while! I know I'm going to fight the long arm, too keep my freedom in all areas.


One last thing to leave you thinking.
I know a CV doc who trained in the UK and had patients scheduled for months to get a CABG (Cardiac Artery Bypass Graft) surgery {here in the states someone has a bad heart attack...they are having emergency bypass (or the surgery they need) that night} because they were only allowed to perform 3 heart surgerys per day and they went in order from when they were put on the list. There were patients which got moved to the bottom of the pile so was rescheduled months later because for whatever reason they couldn't have the surgery done that day(may have eaten after midnight, didn't check in on time, labs off (can be fixed in a day or two) who knows) and many irreversibly suffered because of it. But it didn't matter (here in the US....if its the end of the day and they have already completed 4 or even 5 and an emergency comes in. they will do it because its the patients chance of life) Socialism didn't last in government and won't help health care...just the government who can set what it brings in and how much it pays out without excuses!

Thats the end of my rant..:thumbsup: .. it just ticks me off when I see someone willing to give up one of the few freedoms they have in this country that MOST in the world don't have! I agree its FAR FROM PERFECT and it needs help...but universal Health Care is absolutely not the answer! Wanna tell if a decision is going to screw you? look at who is trying to push for it...people only push what will benefit them...look at how they will benefit, then decide! Most pushing for this are rich and can get personal health care service because they can pay up front for it. (you get what you pay for) so they won't be affected by it, they will also get votes from those thinking they are looking out for them, AND those that will benefit when the Government gets more control and can have divisions of friends/people getting paid too much to be on a committee!

pwrpapa, you may not be condoning Universal Health Care...but you mentioned it so I thought I'd rant about it. Sorry

JT


I live up in Canada, am a conservative and it's almost illegal to criticize our blessed universal healthcare system. Canada is like the states we have an aging population (baby boomers) who have dominated the political landscape for the last 30 years. We can't afford to pay for all the healthcare services they need any more then we can keep the CPP (Canadian Pension Plan) going without raising taxes so far out of sight.

I have counsins and aunts who are nurses that work in the states because the pay is better, the hospitals are properly funded. That money comes from the patient. In Canada they're told to "make due with less". We spend tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayers dollars funding their education only to loose them to the states?

My best friend had to give up playing golf because of his bad knee. He was okay with that but not giving up hockey. To get it fixed in Canada ment a wait list of at least 2 years. To get it fixed just over the border was a $5000 bill and they could get it done the next day. He cut the cheque and drives a slightly shittier car, and plays his sports. Best money he ever spent.

I don't think the American system is great either but don't hold up the Canadian system like a shining beacon of hope for your socialist agenda. No system can be good when the demand on it exceeds the workforce available to service it. And memo to Micheal Moore - keep our country out of your shitty movies.

  • J_T

Posted March 12, 2008 - 06:50 AM

#32

Jt you seem bias. I agree that universal health care has issues that would have to be addressed before going forward, but for you to say health care prices are low because of competition your crazy. Take a look at a bill from a hospital. Half the time they just add crap on just to raise prices, thinking that people dont know and wont go over thier bill. Look at what they charge for bandages, que tips, asprin. Outragous! Once you go to the hospital they have you by the balls. Unless you are an illegal. If you are a citizen you will be headed for finacial ruin.



Oh...so tempting, there is an explanation and a help...but I guess I won't hijack anymore...If someone wants to start a post on this I'll add it there. just let me know if it gets started.

As far as what I would like to see. Honda needs to be a little more fair about what comes here. I don't know if they are assembled here or what makes Honda USA different from Honda something else because I know the parts aren't so whats the difference in shipping one crate to one place and another to here! and can't ship them all everywhere? (I need to research this some more) but I have a hard time believing that Honda is doing SO WELL in other countries OVER other companies that they don't need US support and we are the step-child. I like Honda...but I don't have to buy them and I may not for my next depending on what they have! I want to see some good competitors and updated models to compete against the KTM and Husky for sure with Honda reliability!

  • jdubb75

Posted March 12, 2008 - 07:03 AM

#33

Oh...so tempting, there is an explanation and a help...but I guess I won't hijack anymore...If someone wants to start a post on this I'll add it there. just let me know if it gets started.

As far as what I would like to see. Honda needs to be a little more fair about what comes here. I don't know if they are assembled here or what makes Honda USA different from Honda something else because I know the parts aren't so whats the difference in shipping one crate to one place and another to here! and can't ship them all everywhere? (I need to research this some more) but I have a hard time believing that Honda is doing SO WELL in other countries OVER other companies that they don't need US support and we are the step-child. I like Honda...but I don't have to buy them and I may not for my next depending on what they have! I want to see some good competitors and updated models to compete against the KTM and Husky for sure with Honda reliability!


Honda is ending motorcycle production in the US in spring of 2009. Quads are still being made in SC.

Honda also has to deal with the US restrictions on noise and emission output which I think might be a little tougher and more costly than most other countries. Not positive on this, but I've read a little on it elsewhere.

I think this is the main reason we have limited availability of the all the models.

  • atreiou

Posted March 14, 2008 - 06:57 AM

#34

to the persons who want an european motorbike..

do you know how much we pay a bike like that ?

for example a new XR 650 motard street legal cost about 14.000 Usd (9.000 Euro) :D

and our salary is 60% or less than yours :eek:

only for your information. :thumbsup:

  • cleonard

Posted March 14, 2008 - 08:27 AM

#35

Honda is ending motorcycle production in the US in spring of 2009. Quads are still being made in SC.

Honda also has to deal with the US restrictions on noise and emission output which I think might be a little tougher and more costly than most other countries. Not positive on this, but I've read a little on it elsewhere.

I think this is the main reason we have limited availability of the all the models.


Emissions restrictions in the US are WAY tighter. The other reason is sales. They remember having warehouses full of NX650's and Transalps in the early 90's that they could not sell. Unfortunately, we are a niche market and Honda doesn't do those. Husky and KTM do.

  • Motosprtman

Posted March 14, 2008 - 10:52 AM

#36

Emissions restrictions in the US are WAY tighter. The other reason is sales. They remember having warehouses full of NX650's and Transalps in the early 90's that they could not sell. Unfortunately, we are a niche market and Honda doesn't do those. Husky and KTM do.


The reason they remember having warehouses full of the failed NX line is not due to restrictions at all. Restrictions don't mean squat to Honda, they simply full fill the EPA requirement - IF - they can gain PROFIT from the model. It's really all about business and profit - making money.

HONDA in thier not so infinite wisdom at the time, canceled the ever so fruitful XL line up, after a production run of over 15 years and introduced the NX250 and NX650, for a "Paris to Dakar" lookin dual sport that they evidentally thought would be just killer. NOT. They sat unsold in dealers showrooms accross america, with the steadfast XL's lovers - lost without a bike. It probably at the time made a boon to the sales of the XR's.

Then Scott Summers, thought of having an E-start Big Bore four stroke, his team placed a NX650 motor into a XR600 frame and wa-la the XR650L was born. HONDA did notice, and they did follow up and they did recoup some of the loss incurred from the failed NX line. The XR650L has topped the sales charts for them ever since. I spent several years in Japan while in the Navy, and one thing I can tell you is that thier culture is as you may well imagine, far different from ours. One of the things they do - in manufacturing is consistency, that is, if it is not broke don't fix it, if the engineering is proving reliable and is earning profit, leave it alone. It's not that they will not introduce something newer technologically, they will... in thier own time and after more stringent testing than we would ever do. That is why we have had our beloved XR650L for so many years, it's a no brainer to them, tried and true technology and it sells out every year. $$$$$ cha -ching it keeps on ringin that cash register.

Once more, that "Cha-Ching" I just mentioned ..... was silent during the days of the NX. Failure is VERY HUMBLING to the Japanese, you won't see them make that mistake again.

Be patient, when they do produce a replacement for the XR650L - it will be something we will all lust for.... guaranteed.

  • HeadTrauma

Posted March 14, 2008 - 11:22 AM

#37

for example a new XR 650 motard street legal cost about 14.000 Usd (9.000 Euro) :D

and our salary is 60% or less than yours :thumbsup:


Based on per capita numbers from the U.S. Department of State, The Italian average income is 17.3% lower than that of the U.S....not 60. $14,000 for a 650R motard is a lot of money to us as well.

Failure is VERY HUMBLING to the Japanese, you won't see them make that mistake again.


Don't forget the personal and social shame that comes with that failure. I don't hear much about instances of seppuku anymore, but the news I get here is more worthless entertainment than worthwhile information. :eek:

I agree with the assertion that Honda will build what makes them money, not what we a niche group of enthusiasts squawk about. Ford and Nissan are the same way. We have been complaining for years now that Ford should bring the Australian Falcon over here like GM/Holden did with the GTO/Monaro. Others have also been complaining that Nissan sells the Skyline and Silvia everywhere but here.

  • r3r3r

Posted March 14, 2008 - 02:08 PM

#38

HONDA in thier not so infinite wisdom at the time, canceled the ever so fruitful XL line up, after a production run of over 15 years and introduced the NX250 and NX650, for a "Paris to Dakar" lookin dual sport that they evidentally thought would be just killer. NOT. They sat unsold in dealers showrooms accross america, with the steadfast XL's lovers - lost without a bike. It probably at the time made a boon to the sales of the XR's.


Well, it's a shame that the NX's didn't sell. People love these bikes - I know because I've searched for and bought a NX250, and now a NX650. They truly are more for street and dirt roads than true off-roading, but what is the super-motard craze all about anyhow...?

Regardless, I still lean true to my XR roots :thumbsup: and would like to see Honda come out with another street legal 250 dual sport. The XR650L is a beast for anything but street riding - too much weight to really tool around in tight areas or on twisty mountain roads. My '91 XR250L is getting old and worn, and I may be leaning over to the Yamaha (XT250) when it comes time for my next bike...

Message to Honda: small dual sport, small dual sport, small dual sport... :eek:

  • tgstoken

Posted March 14, 2008 - 02:23 PM

#39

We need a CRF450L. Plain and simple. Also, a 6th gear would be nice for any displacement under 600. Just try riding a XT225 on the street/highway without using 6th gear...

  • martinfan30

Posted March 14, 2008 - 02:29 PM

#40

We need a CRF450L. Plain and simple. Also, a 6th gear would be nice for any displacement under 600. Just try riding a XT225 on the street/highway without using 6th gear...


One that doesnt take the maintenance of the race versions.





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