RESOLVED: New WR450 and screwed by dealer, I think.


104 replies to this topic
  • kevinwr450f

Posted March 05, 2008 - 03:46 PM

#61

[quote name='TommyTheKid']... er, right, that sounds like an advertisement :thumbsup: .. 8.99 is the promotional rate and 12.99 is the rate after 2 years, if they can give me 2.99% I would be quite happy, but I am guessing they will balk at giving me a $10000 loan for a $6000 motorcycle :eek:


I didn't see what your rate was....Some of Yamaha's "no pay for six months" have rates as high as 22.99% after the six months are up.... and no it's not an ad......good luck:bonk:

  • yz-dwg

Posted March 05, 2008 - 04:39 PM

#62

I hate it when any dealer ask's "how much can you afford per month?", my answer is always $10,000, ask how much is the OTD price and the monthly payment will take care of itself.......

  • C-P

Posted March 05, 2008 - 04:52 PM

#63

In the big picture here, the interest rate is not a big deal 8-10-12 percent is not going to make or break anything. It's really all the stuff you were charged for in the first place...

  • TommyTheKid

Posted March 05, 2008 - 09:16 PM

#64

OK guys... so lets focus for a second here...

I am taking it in tomorrow for the first service. The book sez 600 mi, every indication I have read says 2-10 hours, its probably been ~15 hours and around 150-200 mi.

ANYHOW... The service guy claimed they do more than attach the front tire when they take it out of the crate. They claim they re-jet it for this altitude.

I want to sound semi intelligent when I ask him what exactly they do. Can you guys give me some example questions to ask.

What size main/leak/pilot jet?

etc?

Thanks,
Tommy

  • resinlips

Posted March 05, 2008 - 09:32 PM

#65

I find it very very hard to believe that they did any carb work prior to selling the bike. I'd call bullshit on that one for sure.
The stock set up on mine when new was 165 main and 48 pilot which maybe ok for your area. Hope you get some replys from WR riders in Colo. tonight.

  • markvfr

Posted March 05, 2008 - 10:08 PM

#66

Ok, I'm at ~3200ft and I'll tell you what I have for this altitude and what it was stock.

165 main Jet (stock 165)
#42 or #40 Pilot Jet (stock #48)
Needle third clip (stock, one setting, don't know height)
Leak - stock 65?

Thats it. You should be even be leaner if you're higher than ~3200ft which you probably are. So, the lower the number on the jets, the leaner the setting.

Just ask him what he changed the jetting to and then check it if you feel like it at home. Then you'll know for sure if he's lying.

Hope this helps and good luck.
:thumbsup:

  • CORider63

Posted March 05, 2008 - 10:58 PM

#67

"Standard" setup from the dealer I bought my '07 WR-450 from:

1. Exhaust Tip removed
2. Throttle Stop screw cut down
3. Gray Wire disconnected.
4. Main Jet 165, Pilot Jet 45. (Owner's Manual indicates stock is 162 and 45.)

  • trxcr

Posted March 06, 2008 - 04:14 AM

#68

I hate it when any dealer ask's "how much can you afford per month?", my answer is always $10,000, ask how much is the OTD price and the monthly payment will take care of itself.......

Yup, dealers love folks that are only worried about low payments, takes their mind off the big picture.

  • TommyTheKid

Posted March 06, 2008 - 05:41 AM

#69

... very interesting... and what dealer was that (if you don't mind my asking).. Maybe thats why I don't think this bike is a dog, cause they already did some of those mods.

Is the exhaust tip the cone shaped thing on the end of the muffler, or was there an actual pipe sticking out of the end. What do these things look like stock?

Also, speaking of stock, I am wondering if they removed AIS.. can you tell by the picture? (profile/garage)

TOmmy

"Standard" setup from the dealer I bought my '07 WR-450 from:

1. Exhaust Tip removed
2. Throttle Stop screw cut down
3. Gray Wire disconnected.
4. Main Jet 165, Pilot Jet 45. (Owner's Manual indicates stock is 162 and 45.)



  • MotoGoalie

Posted March 06, 2008 - 07:11 AM

#70

My head hurts.:thumbsup:

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • tigerowner_ut

Posted March 06, 2008 - 12:44 PM

#71

The first thing you can do is ask for your stock jets, snorkle, extra length of the throttle stop...

Ask what main jet and needle position they use at 5000 ft.

Ask how a $15 jet + $70/ 1hr (I am being generous) costs $425?

Ask why the steering head bearings are nearly dry?

Ask how 12 quarts of oil, 6 filters and a few shims (if they actually touch the valves) and 6 hours of labor costs nearly $1000

  • TommyTheKid

Posted March 06, 2008 - 01:36 PM

#72

THIS HAS BEEN RESOLVED.. I will post updates later. (working)

  • KAS

Posted March 06, 2008 - 02:31 PM

#73

IMO the only way to "resolve" this totally would be to knock about $4k off your Yamaha account.

They really screwed you over. Ya gotta go in prepared for dealing with these snakes in the grass, and pay close attention to everything they say and do.

  • CORider63

Posted March 06, 2008 - 02:40 PM

#74

... very interesting... and what dealer was that (if you don't mind my asking).. Maybe thats why I don't think this bike is a dog, cause they already did some of those mods.

Is the exhaust tip the cone shaped thing on the end of the muffler, or was there an actual pipe sticking out of the end. What do these things look like stock?

Also, speaking of stock, I am wondering if they removed AIS.. can you tell by the picture? (profile/garage)

TOmmy

The AIS are the parts connected to the long metal tube in the first picture in this thread: (EDIT: This is a picture of an 2006 or earlier. The 2007 AIS Vallve will be up under the gas tank, but it will still have a metal tube connected near the exhaust port.)

http://www.thumperta...ht=AIS tutorial

The first picture in the thread below has an arrow pointing to the rivet on the Exhaust Tip that needs to be drilled out to remove the inner exhaust tube. The entire Exhaust Tip was already removed on mine by removing the four allen-head screws that connect it to the back side of the muffler. (The muffler end cap/cover has already been removed in this picture and would typically be reinstalled.):

The second picture in this thread points to the Gray Wire.

http://www.thumperta...744#post4093744


You can tell if the throttle stop has been swapped or cut down by making sure that the twist throttle will rotate a full 1/4 turn.

  • C-P

Posted March 06, 2008 - 03:11 PM

#75

... very interesting... and what dealer was that (if you don't mind my asking).. Maybe thats why I don't think this bike is a dog, cause they already did some of those mods.

Is the exhaust tip the cone shaped thing on the end of the muffler, or was there an actual pipe sticking out of the end. What do these things look like stock?

Also, speaking of stock, I am wondering if they removed AIS.. can you tell by the picture? (profile/garage)

TOmmy


If you can't tell if the removed the AIS, get to know your bike! This will save you some big hassles in the future. Compared to most modern machinery, motorcyles are fairly maintenance intensive and dirt bikes even more so. When something goes wrong out a million miles from nowhere, the more you know your way around the thing, the better. Plus, what I've learned over the years, very few people care about your machine as much as you do. I've had really good guys that I still like leave bolts loose, too much/too little oil, you name it.

The AIS has a metal tube going from the front of the cylinder, to the AIS pump on the right side just under the tank/frame rail on the right. The pump on my 07 said Mikuni on it.

  • Hondamudder

Posted March 06, 2008 - 04:05 PM

#76

When something goes wrong out a million miles from nowhere, the more you know your way around the thing, the better. Plus, what I've learned over the years, very few people care about your machine as much as you do.

Correctomundo, I've worked on my own bikes since I was a pup which has paid off 100's of times. Everyone should be able to diagnose a problem and fix it with the tools and knowledge they carry. When I was in Washington state riding in the beautiful Gifford Pinchot Forest, 50 miles from camp, I was confident that I had torqued, greased, adjusted and touched every part of my scoot. I don't like surprises that far out. I like getting back to camp before dark (with no bones sticking out).
Visit the Sears tool department nearest you and collect the metric tools required to maintain the machine, you'll never regret it. My '98 Honda CR500 has never let me down. I know it's not a 4 stroke but it runs and climbs so well I just can't give it up. I did weld 22 oz. onto the flywheel. The Honda CRF450X really looks good so I may have to give up adding oil to the fuel someday soon.

  • TommyTheKid

Posted March 06, 2008 - 04:06 PM

#77

OK, thanks guys. I kept trying to find that on mine, and couldn't, which is why I was like where the hell is it, thats because its not there. :thumbsup:

They installed the GYTR AIS removal kit, which apparently includes removal of AIS, the plate cover (which I did find), the shorter throttle limit screw and jetting for this altitude.. apparently 150/48 (or 148/50, I may have mixed up the numbers), along with the removal of the exhaust restriction, but they assured me that the spark arrestor is still in place. They also modified the air box, Accelerator Pump linkage (etc), and disconnected the grey wire. They also did some "special" tuning that they have learned to make these 450's happy at this elevation from their racers.

I had to believe this was the case, as the thing wants to rip out of my arms if I twist the throttle standing on the pegs, I couldn't believe when I was reading that it came from the factory slow and limited. I am somewhat glad to know I am not *that* much of a ***** :eek:

Anyhow, the setup fees have been *accepted* by me as is.

Tommy


The AIS are the parts connected to the long metal tube in the first picture in this thread: (EDIT: This is a picture of an 2006 or earlier. The 2007 AIS Vallve will be up under the gas tank, but it will still have a metal tube connected near the exhaust port.)

http://www.thumperta...ht=AIS tutorial

The first picture in the thread below has an arrow pointing to the rivet on the Exhaust Tip that needs to be drilled out to remove the inner exhaust tube. The entire Exhaust Tip was already removed on mine by removing the four allen-head screws that connect it to the back side of the muffler. (The muffler end cap/cover has already been removed in this picture and would typically be reinstalled.):

The second picture in this thread points to the Gray Wire.

http://www.thumperta...744#post4093744


You can tell if the throttle stop has been swapped or cut down by making sure that the twist throttle will rotate a full 1/4 turn.



  • TommyTheKid

Posted March 06, 2008 - 05:12 PM

#78

THIS HAS BEEN RESOLVED

I took the bike in for its first service today, and while I was there, I talked to the owner, Dave, at Coyote and he was already very well aware of this thread, even the cactus part. Dave was very friendly and courteous and we worked together to find a solution that made me happy, and I believe was in both of our best interest.

THE ISSUE:

I went into Coyote (among other places) one nice Saturday a few weeks ago to *look* at a TTR-230 vs a WR-250 vs the various others, just look, no intention of buying them. I wanted to see how the bikes felt between my legs. I wanted to ride them. After looking at the TTR vs WR, I knew I would be getting a WR, which meant I had to save more money. They offered me a test ride, which I took. Here is where the trouble started. I came back from my test ride on the 250 and they let me test ride the 450, holy ballz! I had to have it.. my bad! Their only trickery was letting me ride it and let the bike sell itself :thumbsup: SO, I ended up *buying* a WR-450. Their sales people are good, I have to give credit where credit is due. I knew very well I was spending money I didn't have.

I was all too focused on the monthly payment, and wasn't really paying attention to what I KNOW I need to do when I buy.. aka SHOP AROUND, get the best OTD price, etc. Again, my bad, stupid "gotta have it now" set in, and so my general finances will suffer.

After I had looked over the paper work a second and third and maybe fourth time, I was starting to feel uneasy about the numbers. I posted here and my fears were confirmed.

Sale Price as Equipped: 6699
** MSRP is 7199, so as they told me when I came back from my test ride already giddy, $500 off, probably could have fought for more, but I didn't.

Freight: 455
** Shipping from Japan to CA to CO.. etc, whatever, every dealer I checked with had this. ACCEPTED

Set-Up: 425
** As discussed above, yes, they attached the wheels and handlebars, but also did all the "mods" that I would have probably done eventually anyhow cause it wouldn't have run worth crap at this altitude (5280ft). With my limited mechanical abilities, I am actually VERY glad that THEY did it, so I don't have to worry about it voiding my warranty or whatever. I accept this charge.


Delivery & Handling: 199.50
... This charge is mis-named (in my opinion), Dave says this is to handle all the paperwork, etc that has to be done. This is effectively the "doc fee" I have seen on other people's invoices. I think I could have probably gotten free delivery out of them if I had asked, but I had already taken the bike home. I still don't like this charge, but It was resolved as part of the solution.


THE SOLUTION:


Dave gave me TWO main options:

1.Cancel the contract, return the bike, pay to have any damage (custom shaped clutch handle) repaired, and be done with the whole thing. I was happy that he would let me do that, as he is obviously not required to do so. The problem is, I want the bike, I really like it, so this option is out.

2. Dave gave me the option to remove the extended warranty and maintenance plan. I seriously considered this and went back and forth several times. My friend (as well as local TT/ADV members) would have probably worked with me to do any maintenance I would need help with, I could have easily canceled that and been ahead, *money wise*, but I am mostly a non-mechanical minded person. I was reading the how-to on some of these "simple mods" and was like, I am not even touching that. I can handle a basic tire change, even oil and filter, but beyond that, I really have no business in there. I do the computer thing, they do the motorcycle service thing. Money is this funny green stuff that we trade back and forth when we do services for each other. I decided in the end to KEEP those, as I *really* like that same setup on my truck. I know you are probably all angry that I did, but its my money, after all :eek: I don't consider it part of the price of the bike any more than the helmet, goggles, boots, etc. I just pre-paid for maintenance. I probably could have dropped the warranty, but after reading through it, I wanted to keep it.

So, the option I chose...
I ended up getting my accessories covered and the bark busters installed. Effectively, about $550 off the price. I will apply that directly to my loan (once I get the first bill).

While I still don't know whether pre-paid maintenance or the extended warranty were a good decision or not, it was left up to me (again) and I chose to keep it. Coyote Motorsports did not trick or coerce me into those extras, I asked for them, and chose to KEEP them the second time around. The fact that they even gave me a second time around proves to me that they are very interested in customer service and keeping the customer happy.

To be clear, I am HAPPY with the end state. I intend to use Coyote Motorsports for future purchases and would recommend them to anyone around this area looking for a Yamaha. The sales staff is very friendly, even to a dirt n00b. The owner was friendly and easy to deal with when I had cold feet and wanted to change the deal. I wouldn't suggest everyone do that, but most people that are reading this already know how to buy a motorcycle, they aren't first timers. I really like their service folks and have heard good things about them from several of my (extended) friends that actually RACE motorcycles.

I thank everyone here for their support and if you really read through this entire post, your attention span is better than mine.

What did I learn from this?

I learned that even after I make a deal I feel *I* messed up on, customer service still prevails at Coyote and they would have worked with me to do whatever I needed (within reason I am sure).

I learned that I shouldn't take test rides till I am really ready to buy (financially).

I also learned that I need to have someone with me with a big stick to beat me when I visit motorcycle dealerships. Just someone to talk some sense into me.. walk away, and think about it, shop around, everything that everyone already knows, and I think even I knew, but somehow it all flew out the window when I twisted the throttle on that 450.

Tommy

  • thumper tom

Posted March 06, 2008 - 06:32 PM

#79

Just make sure you do the Insurance Thing

  • resinlips

Posted March 06, 2008 - 07:13 PM

#80

You have an awesome bike! Expensive as hell though. Thats all I'm gonna say while I eat my helping of crow.




 
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