Barnum's Mild Cam Vs Stage 2 Hotcams


12 replies to this topic
  • J_T

Posted February 26, 2008 - 09:46 PM

#1

I had the Stage 1 cam and it did the trick..I'm looking into rebuild for 680 with rod and balanced crank...as well as Head work for Stainless Steel valves.

I have read tons that have used the Stage 2 and a few that have barnum's mild cam. Everyone is happy that I have heard...but barnum's for sure requires relief's on the piston.

what are pro's and Cons of each... one may serve my purpose more than the other?

Does it make a difference which valves I go with...I was thinking stainless steel with Heavy Duty hardware But as to what size I have heard to stick with stock. and some say go to 1mm larger on intake. And there is a 3mm intake out there that says they wouldn't do it again the same?

Any ideas on cam and head combination...Its for dual-sport and offroad...but I want to keep reliability!

Thanks all...I'm going to pull the motor Thursday and hopefully will take it in on Friday if not Monday! (but if I'm going with Barnum's Cam I need to get it on order for the machine shop to have it)

I understand that there are those out there that have similar setups...but what I would like to know...if you were going to do it different...what would you change and keep the same

Thanks in advance.

  • BWB63

Posted February 26, 2008 - 10:43 PM

#2

680cc with stock valve size is a little abrupt. 3mm oversized intake sure smooths out the power delivery and add's a ton to the top. The reason I would not go straight to the 3mm oversized again is I will have to install new valve seats next rebiuld. If I would have gone 1mm oversized I would have room to move up to the 3mm which have very little meat and no room for refacing. I have riden many stage two cams and have Barnum's higher lift cam, but, I have the 3mm oversized intake so, the comparison can not be made. The 680cc stage two cam bike has a nikasil cylinder and is bruttle down low and doesn't keep giving up top like the barnum's cam with the 3mm oversized intake. My next go will be Barnum's cam, Nikasil cylinder, 1mm oversized intake shooting for something inbetween. Barnum has an even more radical cam regrind on his bike I have ridden, it is different and his bike has been clocked at over 120 through some small whoops during the Baja 1000. It is fast and feels stock down low with 15/47 gearing. The 680 bike I have with 3mm oversized valves feals like a real healthy tricked out stock geared XR650R but, it is running 15/47 gearing. It is amazing to have a bike that feels like a stock strong trick XR650R but, has enought power to pull the front end up at 70 and keeps pulling well over 100mph. 14/48 and you think the bike is going to flip other at 55mph in third if you wack the throttle:eek:

  • J_T

Posted February 27, 2008 - 06:34 AM

#3

I've been running 15/45 while on the street and swap the chain and sprockets to 14/48 or even have 13/50 in case I don't want to be in 1st only on the trails!...

I like the sound of Barnum's cam... More research and reading I'll post later on in the day. (I need to do some work to pay for it all)

  • J_T

Posted February 28, 2008 - 01:52 PM

#4

Barnum's Cam may not be an option (I have emailed more than 3 times asking description of their cams, about price and availability and they responded each time to the affect that I need to talk to my machine shop to recommend a cam instead of going through them?)

I have a feeling it was due to the ordeal that went on a few years back where they got blamed for a malfunction because a shop didn't know to clearance a piston with their cam so I am getting the "feeling" they don't want to sell a cam unless they do the work in their shop?

Are there other cam manufactures that have done good work for the XR650R! I am happy with my stage 1 hotcam but I would just like an option to compare to so I have a choice instead of using the only available?

I will certainly ask my shop as well but these bikes are not common here in TN and I KNOW that the machine shop here doesn't have enough experience with this bike to know what makes it perform the best! I trust them in their skills if I ask to bore, hone, assemble, clearance, and the such but about tunning this bike takes more experience than just knowing how to assemble.

Just my thoughts...If this was any other dirt bike I'd do it myself and just use the shop for the machine work...but I love the bike and want it to last to the fullest!

  • BWB63

Posted February 28, 2008 - 02:18 PM

#5

Web makes a cam.....

XR's Only was having a cam made from the same place Barnum was having his done. A phone call to them might help.

I do not think you are going to get a cam with more lift, like Barnum's, because of the clearance issue. You could send out the cylender for Nikasil and have Barnum do the head work and fit the piston.

As said, by Bajabound that an 680cc bike done with cam, 11:1 piston and stock valves can be a handfull. That is one reason I went with 3mm oversized intake valves to smooth out the power band over the whole rpm curve. Like I said, that leave no room to resurfice the valve seats. -

  • karmataburn

Posted February 28, 2008 - 05:35 PM

#6

Barnum did a complete rebuild on my motor last year. He use an after market rod, High compression 650 wiseco piston, and a stage 2 hot cam. I could not be happier with the work and how the bike runs. I have ran it a few times on gas out of a milk jug down in Mexico and the thing runs great.

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  • J_T

Posted February 28, 2008 - 08:19 PM

#7

Barnum did a complete rebuild on my motor last year. He use an after market rod, High compression 650 wiseco piston, and a stage 2 hot cam. I could not be happier with the work and how the bike runs. I have ran it a few times on gas out of a milk jug down in Mexico and the thing runs great.


Thanks everyone for your insight.

Tell me if I'm off base but this is my mindset right now.

As you may have read in a previous post I ran it too low of oil so I want to have the crank looked at as well as new rod and piston and balanced as everyone recommended. Its more than just installing new piston and cylinder and head.

I can send out the cylinder to get it done, then the head to Barnum's to get his work done as well as piston clearance. BUT I'll still have to take it all to my shop locally to to have the crank, rod and piston installed as well as balanced. then all the parts assembled?

I'm hesitant to bring a shop a box of misc parts and have them put it together...I have have a feeling they frown upon that? but I guess thats there job? One of the things Barnums said in my inquires was to keep the labor in one place and go with what My shop recommended.

I wonder if that means I can just let my shop contact them about getting a cam from them as they would the rest of the rotating assembly?

I talked to Millennium Tech about plating the cylinder heads and that sounds like a great way to go! They did say to have my shop send them the cylinder with the spec and they will bore and plate it!

I talked to lukesracing but they are not doing service work right now because they are upgrading their shop (to handle the demand?) or something like that...just selling parts.


Oh yea...my main issue...when I spoke to my shop locally...they are know for their head work locally, and I trust them to clearance any cam that I handed them...it would be weird to send out the thing they are known for to get someone else to do it...but I guess if they are professional it shouldn't matter?

Ya'll in CA have more access to places for this type of work!

  • J_T

Posted February 28, 2008 - 08:33 PM

#8

My motor is out and in the back of my truck...I'll go by the shop tomorrow and ask them these things to see how they want to handle it and what they are comfortable with? and if I'm happy with the answers I can just leave it with them.


I really don't want to split the case myself! :smirk: I just have too much in my life going on right now and I'm thinking about this too much that I'm not focusing on what I should. I'm ready to take it to someone with a list of mods and pick it up in a month or two and install it!

  • karmataburn

Posted February 29, 2008 - 05:43 AM

#9

My motor is out and in the back of my truck...I'll go by the shop tomorrow and ask them these things to see how they want to handle it and what they are comfortable with? and if I'm happy with the answers I can just leave it with them.


I really don't want to split the case myself! :) I just have too much in my life going on right now and I'm thinking about this too much that I'm not focusing on what I should. I'm ready to take it to someone with a list of mods and pick it up in a month or two and install it!


I would definitely try to keep all the labor in one shop. If your shop has a decent mechanic they should be able to build your motor with the mods and the parts you want put in it. Let us know how it goes.:smirk:

  • J_T

Posted March 03, 2008 - 06:45 PM

#10

does anyone know the measurements, of the stock cam. I was on the Hotcam's site and they have the numbers posted...was going to compare them to the stock XR650R cam?

I can't find it...


Thanks...

JT

  • XR680RR

Posted March 03, 2008 - 09:59 PM

#11

I notice that you have Barnum's mild cam vrs,stage two hot cam. Doesn't BWB63 have have Barnum's high lift mid cam? Is that the samething? I heard Bruce say that Barnums mid cam was a little more then a HRC or stage two came but, with more lift, is that true?

  • J_T

Posted March 04, 2008 - 05:36 AM

#12

I may have mis-communicated...I don't have barnum's cam. I was looking into it but they would rather sell it when they can do the machine work at the same time to guarantee its to their specs. My shop here in TN would rather not go that direction either because he's not familiar with them and he said if he was going to guarantee his work he would rather put in something he was familiar with, but wanted to measure my OEM cam (I had stage 1 installed when I took it to him) so he could tell me the differences between OEM and Stage 1 and 2 so he could tell me what I should expect from each and whether it would be worth it!

  • BWB63

Posted March 04, 2008 - 07:07 AM

#13

I know that the stage two cam has the same lift as Honda's cams but, as always a good shop will clay test to make sure it all falls into spec.. To answer the rest....yes, I have the Barnum's mid cam as I have said before, it is not a mild cam or stage one but, something like a stage two or HRC cam with more lift. At least that is what I got from Barnum when he sold it to me at the time of the 680cc biuld up. This extra lift is what makes for big trouble if you do not cut the piston with bigger valve reliefs. [COLOR="Red"]Bigger valves is also big trouble if you don't do the same.[/COLOR]





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