650R Desert Racer Project


56 replies to this topic
  • akuleboat

Posted February 28, 2008 - 10:32 AM

#21

I totally agree with Tim on the Halogen vs. HID. You dont have to worry about battery issues with the Halogen. Nearly all of the HID sets I have used needed some tweaking to get them to be reliable. Halogens have been rock solid.

  • Bajajoe

Posted February 28, 2008 - 03:37 PM

#22

I totally agree with Tim on the Halogen vs. HID. You dont have to worry about battery issues with the Halogen. Nearly all of the HID sets I have used needed some tweaking to get them to be reliable. Halogens have been rock solid.


rock solid....:smirk: :)

Good thoughts and thank you.

I hear that. I can think of more than one race where I finished with a completely shattered/broken lens on a h3/h4 lens PIAA and the bulb and reflector where still going strong.

yes, i hear you on the side panel. Seems to me I remember clogging an XR628 in less than 3 miles when I hit a silt bed. We had duct tapped all the fender and side panels to limit dirty air into the filter area, but a shock repair earlier had removed all the tape and ....Presto! Instant filter clog-osis.

Power... I have to say that at top levels you have to be able to twist and rocket. I have been racing when this was the only way to get by a guy was to know your bike would smoke anyone on the course. Dust and all can keep you a bay for a while but when its time to get it on you have to be able to smoke the guy.

I plan to run a stock motor for now with jetting and headers and exhaust. Just to keep the budget down a bit.

As for suspension, no amount of money or testing can be enough. Your life depends on it. Hitting ditches at 70 mph and not getting bucked on your head is really a good thing. Knowing that you can intentionally hit these ditches, or charge at hi speed into a whoop field and keep it smooth is what its all about. I need to find out the price on the CR500 shock. Hey, the bling factor alone could be a good enough reason.

enough for now.....

  • tjmiller

Posted March 03, 2008 - 09:50 AM

#23

One thing to consider with the dual 8's is the amount of weight they put on the forks (you can get a frame mount for them, but I've never tried that). They give wicked good light, but the bike is so much harder to ride in tighter sections with that extra weight on, especially if there is loose sand, so think about where you'll be running that. If we run the race again, I want to use my Baja Designs Tecate headlight (single Halogen and a single HID). Gives good light without the weight.

For engine mods, I really liked the HRC kit we ran on our race bike. Made it have enough extra zip where you could just crack the throttle over any barriers, although I don't think you have to have it.

For bike mods, we had:
HRC kit
Pro-circuit T4 Header and exhaust.
Clarke Tank with Dry-break
Scotts steering stabilizer, scotts upper triple clamp and pro-taper bars
Cycra handguards (the cheap honda one's are worthless).
PC did our suspension
Ironman sprockets and DID x-ring chain
Skid plate, Scott's rear sharkfin for the rear disc, XR's only case saver guard, UNIBIKER radiator guards.
XR's only footpegs
Baja Designs dual 8" headlights (only ran these during the night sections) w/ rewound 200w stator

  • Bajajoe

Posted May 19, 2008 - 02:47 PM

#24

Well its been a busy racing season but I finally took the BRP out.

I go riding in Nevada east of reno at my secret baja test area. Its kind of like area 51, only for bikes. 100s of miles of washes, road single track rocks hil climbs canyons...... And no one around to bother you.

I have not done anything to the motor yet, but all the other goodies have been done and especially the suspension. :rolleyes:

I use Borynaks website to choose the valving and such for the suspension. It totally worked. Stock was JUNK. His valve ideas ROCK.

:thumbsup:

The bike was really fun to ride. The suspension was firm, but still would still use all the stroke on the big hits. Rocks slow and at speed worked great. Basically the bike stayed on the ground and felt quite.

I mistakenly hit a 2x2 foot rain rut at about 40 mph and it soaked it up great. The rear hit pretty hard but the front could have cared less.

Brakes were really weak compared to my other bike. i really had to squeeze to get the Big Girl to slow down. I may look at the pads. I think they are stock but may want to try something else. Any suggestions?

i did modify the springs to about 45-46. Stock w the 4.7 gal tank was just too much weight. 45 is a good choice. i weigh 170 w/o gear and ride aggresively.

So next is the HRC cam, custom headers, PC 96 db silencer. Hopefully this will really let the motor rev out. It pulled but really ran flat past the mid range. I have jetted it but thats it.

So a little motor work and a new HID and ill be ready to go for a long ride in June.

Ill take a picture when its all done. Nothing fancy or blinged out. Just Big, Red, and FUN!

On another note, i have seen a bit of very fine dirt getting past the filter. I use one of the eco friendly brands of filter oil and filters. I am wondering if others have seen this? It is because the filter is 'thin' compare to my two strokes? i may have to drop the eco friendly oil and filters and try something else. i'd hate to try my extra side panel that has the factory look with the openings only to suck even more dirt past the filter.

  • BWB63

Posted May 19, 2008 - 08:42 PM

#25

We need Video! Pictures!

  • sploogemonkey

Posted May 20, 2008 - 03:22 AM

#26

........On another note, i have seen a bit of very fine dirt getting past the filter. I use one of the eco friendly brands of filter oil and filters. I am wondering if others have seen this? It is because the filter is 'thin' compare to my two strokes? i may have to drop the eco friendly oil and filters and try something else.


The only air filters that I have personal experience with leakage are K&Ns.

I don't have a 650R, so I can't speak for the suitability of that specific design, but K&N's on other off road applications have had dubious reliability in my experience.

No matter what brand of air filter you choose, always pay close attention during installation to make sure it seals properly, and follow proper maintenance procedures when cleaning it. Your engine will thank you for it.

  • BWB63

Posted May 20, 2008 - 05:46 AM

#27

No Tiol gave me problems. It dries out, I don't use spray on. I soak the filter in Golden Spectro filter oil (the stuff that comes in the gray/blue quart bottle). It is super sticky and water proof. Lots don't like it because it is hard to clean out of the filter, yes gas removes it real easy and the filters only last a little over a year but, it is worth it to me to have the pease of mind that nothing is getting through. Bell Ray filter oil in the quart white bottle is the same stuff, just thinnner and cheaper. I use vassaline for the edge to help seal. Making sure the frame that slips inside a UNI is bent to fit the filter box is a must and that the fliter side cover fits into the grove all the way around should be carefully checked. I removed the O-Ring that fits in the grove so the cover goes on deaper.

  • dezracerE

Posted May 20, 2008 - 06:05 AM

#28

Prec Concepts is running about $1000 including freight. It is really pricey so....

I have the tools to disassemble and reassemble the shock and fork. I just do not know what internals need massaging.

All I know now is that the stock suspension is totally junk and IMO could be considered a liability for Honda if anyone tried to ride these bikes aggresively in the Dez.

I put 600 miles on this bike pre running for last year's 1000 and thought about (more than once) throwing that hunk of junk in a ditch and lighting on fire and leaving it. My forearms hurts so much that I switched bikes with my buddy (crf 450 stock) and he demanded his bike back after about 10 miles. LOL!

So suspension, its all about the spring rates and valving and oil vis and level. Anyone have the specs that they want to share and maybe Ill try it out.

Whats the deal with the 680 kit? Is this a REALLY reliable setup? Can it run on regular pump gas?

I know the std jetting setup for the a relatively stock motor but any other tips would be great.

Thanks.


MY $.02

Precision Concepts knows how to set up the suspensions for Baja.
Average your weights of the riders and they will eat up the big truck rollers.
Do it and you will love the difference.

Check my garage.
I built a 650 for the B1K on a budget.
I would not hesitate to take it to La Paz today.

Keep the stock motor. (Do you need more than 100 mph?
Open the air box- play with the jetting after choosing a pipe and you should have more than enough. (or you will just tear the tires off the thing).
I run Pemex on it when in Baja- no problems so far.

Tires and tubes or inserts are key.
We choose Dunlops and Bridgestone ultra HD tubes.

Do the footpeg mod for safety- should be your first mod along with a stabilizer- IMO.

Your biggest expense is the suspension- which you will not be disappointed.

I chose the dual halogen lights for simplicity and cost. No battery necessary and the lighting is enough for as fast as I want to go at night.

My bike is an 01 and rides like new. I am fairly anal about maintenance and prep.

Good luck.

  • 1Hondalover

Posted May 20, 2008 - 08:18 PM

#29

Brakes were really weak compared to my other bike. i really had to squeeze to get the Big Girl to slow down. I may look at the pads. I think they are stock but may want to try something else. Any suggestions?


On another note, i have seen a bit of very fine dirt getting past the filter. I use one of the eco friendly brands of filter oil and filters. I am wondering if others have seen this? It is because the filter is 'thin' compare to my two strokes? i may have to drop the eco friendly oil and filters and try something else. i'd hate to try my extra side panel that has the factory look with the openings only to suck even more dirt past the filter.


I love to ride my 650 with all the guys on their "lighter" bikes. Just a few miles into a ride, most of them just shake their head and the comment usually is something along the lines of "how in the hell do you get that thing to go that fast?"

I have most of the same mods as many others, including the unbelieveable Precision Concepts suspension. A stock motor is the best advice. Jetted properly, the one-kick 650 has more than you will ever need off-road. Spend your money on things that count.....and win races.

You should immediately replace your brake fluid if it's as old as most people have. This makes a big difference. After that your braking issues can be solved with Braking wave rotors (oversize front) and CM46 pads. My best air filter advice is the only thing I'll use....Ready Racing on a PC Racing no-grease gasket with an XR's Only high flow screen.

The 650 obsolete? That's fine. ring your tire-spinning electric start bike and try to catch me. Race it.....and leave 'em wondering.

  • BWB63

Posted May 21, 2008 - 06:11 AM

#30

MY $.02

Precision Concepts knows how to set up the suspensions for Baja.
Average your weights of the riders and they will eat up the big truck rollers.
Do it and you will love the difference.

Your biggest expense is the suspension- which you will not be disappointed.

Good luck.


Not knocking that you have PC suspension, they do good work. What I have a problem with in the racing industry is the thought that suspension is some kind of black magic voodoo:excuseme: For those that have had there suspension apart front and back, they know what I am talking about. Sure if no one ever knows the top secret shims stacks or could never figure out that the spiecal bottoming cone are from a 89 KX500 then sure it would be black magic voodoo. There are a lot of shops with lazy workers that won't use a torque wrench. Just grind off the nuts flat, and leave hair and dirt in the shim stacks - Don't know how to set up a good shim stack but, four or five hours of work, springs cost $200, oil $50 for the expensive stuff, $20 for shims, $20 for Nitrogen, lets throw in $150 for other parts, lets say $500 just to round up, pay how much for labor? That is if you take your time and do it right. I know for a fact (Not sure how I know this) but, Borynack has had several PC, Barnum, Baja Designs, RaceTech suspensions apart, uses mainly what Jimmy Sones taught him (Look up Jimmy Sones). Then to make sure that these setups would work for real everyday riders he did 20+ suspensions for free (just the cost of parts) for those on Thumper Talk and YahooXR650R group. In the end a rider can have a suspension setup that works real close to PC's for under $100 + springs. That is if they change the bladder, fluid, shims, buy the drill bit, Nitrogen, make the tools and buy the tools. So for about $350 and the know how that you can do it yourself is nice. You will be able to change your fluid each year like you should and fine tune it as your riding style changes.

Sure there are a lot of things to know to do you suspension right but, that information is out there and I know Borynack answers his phone. Rider be free that charge of your suspension! Revolt! You can do it yourself!:thumbsup: :rolleyes:

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  • daddyk

Posted May 21, 2008 - 09:16 AM

#31

I have a question on the nitrogen part of all this. My xr 600 was set at PC and I like it. Unfortunatly seals don't last forever and it's started to leak. If I change out the seals etc. is any dealer willing to charge it or will they give a problem that it might blow up if their "technicians" didn't do the work?

  • Suikerland

Posted May 21, 2008 - 10:17 AM

#32

I chose the dual halogen lights for simplicity and cost. No battery necessary and the lighting is enough for as fast as I want to go at night.


What dual halogen do you use? Do you have a pic / supplier info?

  • Kenzo

Posted May 21, 2008 - 12:02 PM

#33

a quick question for BWB & other suspension gurus...

...when choosing spring rate lets say per 4Strokes.com tables and u fall inbetween rates...do u opt for the next righer rate? ...or go with the next size down?

TIA & sorry for the hyjack...

  • BWB63

Posted May 21, 2008 - 02:05 PM

#34

The tables off 4Strokes.com is just a rehash from XR's Only's and my site. The biggest thing to get right is that the spring rates jive with each other. The springs support your weight the fluid and valving regulate the rate they respond to that weight. If you are not bottoming or not bottoming bad then going to the lower spring rate is better. If you run hot on the edge of insanity go to the stiffer springs. You want the suspension to soak up all it can without bottoming. The stiffer the springs are the more feedback into your wrist you will get.

  • BWB63

Posted May 21, 2008 - 04:07 PM

#35

I have a question on the nitrogen part of all this. My xr 600 was set at PC and I like it. Unfortunatly seals don't last forever and it's started to leak. If I change out the seals etc. is any dealer willing to charge it or will they give a problem that it might blow up if their "technicians" didn't do the work?



There is a good chance that the reason your seals are leaking is because you lost the nitrogen pressure. Most dealers will charge $20 for a Nitrogen fill. 180~200psi. The www.borynack.com/XR650R page has a shock section that has links you need to take it apart and put it back together again.

  • Blacksamwell

Posted May 21, 2008 - 04:23 PM

#36

I have a question on the nitrogen part of all this. My xr 600 was set at PC and I like it. Unfortunatly seals don't last forever and it's started to leak. If I change out the seals etc. is any dealer willing to charge it or will they give a problem that it might blow up if their "technicians" didn't do the work?


The crew at MX Tech West here in AZ didn't hesitate at all to charge my shock. $10 and ten minutes and I was on my way.

  • BWB63

Posted May 22, 2008 - 06:38 PM

#37

Posted Image

The right suspension setup and even a BRP Poser can do that.....




Here is a fork setup from one of the guys that runs the SCORE and Distric #37 races and it isn't to far from what is on www.borynack.com/XR650R site. He weighs 155 pounds and uses stock springs in this setup. He also has a stiffer setup with heavier springs.

102mm from the top of Golden Spectro 2.5 Ultra Lite:

Desert Race + setup:


Rebound
(6) .10mm X 21mm
(1) .10mm X 20mm
(1) .10mm X 13mm
(1) .10mm X 21mm
(1) .10mm X 18mm
(1) .10mm X 20mm
(1) .10mm X 18mm
(1) .10mm X 16mm
(1) .10mm X 14mm
(1) .10mm X 11mm
Compression
(2) .10mm X 22mm
(2) .10mm X 21mm
(1) .10mm X 20mm
(1) .10mm X 18mm
(1) .10mm X 16mm
(1) .10mm X 14mm
(1) .10mm X 11mm

Shock is also a little different then the chart on Borynack's site:

(8)34mm X .25mm
(1)28mm X .10mm
(3)34mm X .25mm
(1)34mm X .30mm
(2)32mm X .30mm
(1)30mm X .30mm
(1)28mm X .30mm
(1)26mm X .30mm
(1)24mm X .30mm
(1)23mm X .30mm

Compression

(6)38mm X .20mm
(1)32mm X .10mm
(1)36mm X .15mm
(1)30mm X .10mm
(2)38mm X .20mm
(1)36mm X .15mm
(1)38mm X .25mm
(1)36mm X .25mm
(1)32mm X .25mm
(1)30mm X .25mm
(1)28mm X .25mm
(1)26mm X .25mm
(1)24mm X .25mm
(1)22mm X .25mm
(1)21mm X .25mm
(1)19mm X .70mm


There will be 200 psi of Nitrogen in the bladder.

So there is more top secret Voodoo Magic shim stacks. The shim stacks on the web page are canned stacks that will be 500% better then stock but, not perfect for everyone, just 500% better then stock. The chart stacks are made so the owner doesn't have to buy so many different shims but, still get great results. Using shims that are already in the stack and then making it so you don't have to own a ton of shims .

  • Kenzo

Posted May 24, 2008 - 08:14 AM

#38

Bruce,

i've been going over ur site with a fine tooth comb...will the shim stacks on ur site work with a lighter spring/rider combo?

my buddy is about 160lbs wet with gear and were look at using the stock rear spring at ~9.2kg and 0.43kg fork springs ...

TIA,

Kenny

P.S. i keep telling him i'm only going to help with changing his springs and not do ur stack mods until if and when i get an R! ...and boy do i get a rise outta him :thumbsup: hahahaaa...with friends like me...:ride:

  • BWB63

Posted May 24, 2008 - 02:15 PM

#39

That David gray weighs almost that and that is his shim setup for his race bike but, it has all the shims that make it work the best. The shim setups off the site will work for you lite friend just fine. The sites shim stacks and the shim stack below are close to the same you just don't need to buy all the different shims. You won't need as much rebound control with the softer stock springs.
Somethig like this would be good if you don't want to use the extra shims, making it easier to buy shims:

Golden Spectro 2.5 Ultra Lite or Maxima 3wt and this is with the compression valves in the forks drill to 3.65mm ports.
Rebound
(6) .10mm X 21mm
(1) .10mm X 20mm
(1) .10mm X 13mm
(1) .10mm X 21mm
(1) .10mm X 18mm
(1) .10mm X 20mm
(1) .10mm X 18mm
(1) .10mm X 16mm
(1) .10mm X 14mm
(1) .10mm X 11mm
Compression
(2) .10mm X 22mm
(2) .10mm X 21mm or one .15mm X 21mm depending on how hard he rides.
(1) .10mm X 20mm
(1) .10mm X 18mm
(1) .10mm X 16mm
(1) .10mm X 14mm
(1) .10mm X 11mm

Shock:

(8)34mm X .25mm
(1)28mm X .10mm
(3)34mm X .25mm
(1)34mm X .30mm
(1)32mm X .30mm
(1)30mm X .30mm
(1)28mm X .30mm
(1)26mm X .30mm
(1)24mm X .30mm
(1)23mm X .30mm

Compression

(6)38mm X .20mm
(1)32mm X .10mm
(1)30mm X .10mm
(3)38mm X .20mm or four 38mm X .20mm depending on how hard he rides.
(1)38mm X .25mm
(1)36mm X .25mm
(1)32mm X .25mm
(1)30mm X .25mm
(1)28mm X .25mm
(1)26mm X .25mm
(1)24mm X .25mm
(1)22mm X .25mm
(1)21mm X .25mm
(1)19mm X .70mm


There will be 200 psi of Nitrogen in the bladder.

  • Kenzo

Posted May 26, 2008 - 04:10 PM

#40

thank you so much for ur guidance...i have to study a few of the link provided on ur pages before i ask any more dumb questions...

we re-installed the the stock rear spring on my buddies R and need to order the fork springs...

my bud admitted he "checked" for nitrogen pressure on the rear shock :bonk: ...so he's gunna get it recharged this week :thumbsup:

i told him to be careful... going from the PO's 11.0kg to the 9.2kg stock rear spring..."that piggy is gunna rare up on it's back legs reeeal easy"...and it did...heheheee...

are there any short cuts to get access to the rear shock preload adjuster??? maybe just undoing the top or bottom only part of the subframe???

thanks again

P.S. gotta chance to ride with the Klim Mojave pants this weekend and they are keepers...just wish they had a light grey or silver.

:ride:





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