Me Pig sounds like a Harley...


19 replies to this topic
  • dldavis_66

Posted February 17, 2008 - 10:55 PM

#1

Went to the shop this morning to work on my headers, but I decided to tweek my carb first. First I raised the needle up one groove. I then reamed out the pilot jet. I'm not exactly sure what the stock pilot orifice size is/was. I think it's around 0.018. Anyways, I took a tip cleaner, the ones you use for oxy-acetylene torches, and started with the 0.018. Went up to the next size I believe was 0.020, then again to the next higher size of 0.024. Finally used a 0.026 .

Started the bike up. Geeze...sounded really bad, the idle anyways. Very rough idle and next to no response with the pilot screw. Played around with the pilot screw to get the best idle possible, which is an idle that sounds like an old Harley.

I didn't think the pilot jet would be that sensative. I reckon I thought wrong. I'll just take the pilot out of the other carb and use that one for a while.

I don't think raising the needle helped at all either. Gonna put it back on the DynoJet default 3rd groove.

Can anyone tell me what's going on here???

  • Denn10

Posted February 17, 2008 - 11:02 PM

#2

well i think taking all those tip brushes to the brass pilots prolly oversized the crap out of it, i would go with a known good pilot. As for your needle if you didnt ride it and get around 1/2 throttle ish you wont know if lowering it helped at all. Needle is about 1/3 to 2/3 throttle position so just starting it up wont tell you anything. What pilot did you have in it before you swapped out the pipe? go back with that and im sure youll be much better off. I cant see pipes making a whole lot of difference at idle, prolly your mid and upper rpm's will be where you notice it more.

  • dldavis_66

Posted February 17, 2008 - 11:32 PM

#3

well i think taking all those tip brushes to the brass pilots prolly oversized the crap out of it, i would go with a known good pilot. As for your needle if you didnt ride it and get around 1/2 throttle ish you wont know if lowering it helped at all. Needle is about 1/3 to 2/3 throttle position so just starting it up wont tell you anything. What pilot did you have in it before you swapped out the pipe? go back with that and im sure youll be much better off. I cant see pipes making a whole lot of difference at idle, prolly your mid and upper rpm's will be where you notice it more.



I had the stock 50 pilot in with both the first set(not reworked) and then the second set which more than likely had gobs more flow since there were nowhere near as many ripples in the head pipes. No wedge in the Right head pipe either.

This is the first set before I reworked them. You'll notice the tons of ripples and the wedge I used to splice the two halve of the Right headpipe:

Posted Image

Then here is the second set. I used 16g and the amount of ripples decreased significantly. No wedge to splice the two halves either. Lot smoother radius too. Pretty much adds up to gobs more flow compared to the first set:

Posted Image

The bike ran very differently with the second set compared to the first set.
The idle dropped about a couple hundred rpms. Felt like it was running leaner, no backfiring though. Was louder too. Top end was fine. Lost something in the mid and bottom though. That's why I thought a bigger pilot and raising the needle would help. Sure the hell didn't.
I didn't think I reamed out the pilot all that much. But I guess the little-est of changes make really big effects on the fuel mixture.

  • Denn10

Posted February 17, 2008 - 11:55 PM

#4

yeah your bottom and mid loss sounds about right to much better flow thru those pipes. you may just need some fine tuning with those pipes, it can be done for sure but i dont think your have gains all around the power ranges though, lose a little here to gain some here, just depends where you want it. Ill bet if you make another set in different diameter you will see a difference in power in another range. have fun with the time to fine tune the carb, love what your doing though with the pipes wish i had access to a tube bender we could go into business, id bend em and you could put the smooth beads on em LOL

  • lilbro

Posted February 18, 2008 - 08:42 AM

#5

You'll notice the tons of ripples and the wedge I used to splice the two halve of the Right headpipe:

Close off one end of the pipe, fill with water and freeze the pipe, after it is frozen, make the bend. The ice acts as a mandrel and will help with the ripples.

  • martinfan30

Posted February 18, 2008 - 09:45 AM

#6

It'll definately run leaner now. May need a bigger main. Also I think you over did the pilot hole.

  • martinfan30

Posted February 18, 2008 - 09:45 AM

#7

Close off one end of the pipe, fill with water and freeze the pipe, after it is frozen, make the bend. The ice acts as a mandrel and will help with the ripples.


No kidn?

  • Motosprtman

Posted February 18, 2008 - 10:09 AM

#8

If you have it, use your DJ 165 main and a 55 pilot, 2 1/4 turn out on the air fuel screw - it will run like a champ.

  • martinfan30

Posted February 18, 2008 - 10:12 AM

#9

If you have it, use your DJ 165 main and a 55 pilot, 2 1/4 turn out on the air fuel screw - it will run like a champ.


I take it you found one?

  • dldavis_66

Posted February 18, 2008 - 05:53 PM

#10

I just picked up a slew of pilots from a cycle shop near where I work: 50,52 and a 55(2 of each). They were out of the bigger mains. Highest they had was a 152. Went to another shop in the same area, same thing...out of the bigger jets.

Weird.

Been thinking about taking the DJ slide needle out and putting the stock back in with a shim. Already got the DJ 165 main in there. Had it in there with the stock exhaust and the new homemade headers. I still think it's running kinda lean with those kick ass headers. I would like to get at least a 167. Called another shop a few minutes ago and they said they have the bigger jets in stock. The guy told me that they only have 160's and 165's and then 170's that increase by 2 after that. Don't think I'd want to go as high as 170...???

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  • martinfan30

Posted February 18, 2008 - 08:46 PM

#11

I just picked up a slew of pilots from a cycle shop near where I work: 50,52 and a 55(2 of each). They were out of the bigger mains. Highest they had was a 152. Went to another shop in the same area, same thing...out of the bigger jets.

Weird.

Been thinking about taking the DJ slide needle out and putting the stock back in with a shim. Already got the DJ 165 main in there. Had it in there with the stock exhaust and the new homemade headers. I still think it's running kinda lean with those kick ass headers. I would like to get at least a 167. Called another shop a few minutes ago and they said they have the bigger jets in stock. The guy told me that they only have 160's and 165's and then 170's that increase by 2 after that. Don't think I'd want to go as high as 170...???


If I remember right, the Djet needle is a richer needle.

  • Denn10

Posted February 18, 2008 - 11:03 PM

#12

If you have problems finding jets lemme know, i check EVERY main big shop around, you know where i found em??? YEP the little podunk crappy shop??? The last place i went to just to make sure i didnt skip out on them. LOL i got up to a 165 and they were in stock, i doubt you need more than a 168 if thats what the next size up is from the 165

  • Motosprtman

Posted February 19, 2008 - 07:00 AM

#13

I take it you found one?


They sent me some FREE!

  • Motosprtman

Posted February 19, 2008 - 07:05 AM

#14

I just picked up a slew of pilots from a cycle shop near where I work: 50,52 and a 55(2 of each). They were out of the bigger mains. Highest they had was a 152. Went to another shop in the same area, same thing...out of the bigger jets.

Weird.

Been thinking about taking the DJ slide needle out and putting the stock back in with a shim. Already got the DJ 165 main in there. Had it in there with the stock exhaust and the new homemade headers. I still think it's running kinda lean with those kick ass headers. I would like to get at least a 167. Called another shop a few minutes ago and they said they have the bigger jets in stock. The guy told me that they only have 160's and 165's and then 170's that increase by 2 after that. Don't think I'd want to go as high as 170...???


Aye laddie, i think ya be fine with the 165 DJ main and a 55 pilot, leave the DJ needle in too. Supposedly (according to DJ) the shape of the needle preclused the need to replace the pilot jet with a fatter one, but I have found that is not so, so I went to a 55 pilot and it runs sweet cold.

for your configuration a 165 main, 55 pilot, 2 1/4 turns out, makes a happy XRL.

  • dldavis_66

Posted February 19, 2008 - 07:25 PM

#15

Well, I got the 55 pilot in. Keeping the DJ main and needle in too. DJ instruction say to put the needle on the 3rd groove. I gots mine on the fourth. When I first put on the improved version(second set) of my headers, I still had the stock 50 in there, the DJ 165 main and the needle at the 3rd groove. To repeat what I have written I kinda lost some of my low and mid power. The better flowing set of headers felt like it leaned things out a bit.

I put the 55 pilot in early this morning before shoving off to work(already had the needle on the 4th groove). When I got home I ran the bike at about 3,000 rpms and shot several, short spurts of Berryman's Chemtool carb cleaner, just enough to where the engine would not stall. Then on the final spurt, I shot quite abit more, this time enough to stall the engine. Kicked back for a few minutes, started the bike up and ran it hard for quite a few miles to blow everything out. Stopped at the top of my "test hill", re-adjusted the idle and that was that. The bike runs beautifully. Not bad at all, pretty friggen good in fact for still having the stock piston and cam. Goes through the gears really nice. No missin or gurgles. Just downright awesome.

  • martinfan30

Posted February 19, 2008 - 07:36 PM

#16

Nice! Glad you got er going the right way.:applause:

  • dylanr

Posted February 19, 2008 - 08:07 PM

#17

Sounded like a harley? Did it leak oil too? JK Hondas dont leak oil.
Love the headers.

  • Denn10

Posted February 19, 2008 - 09:38 PM

#18

WORD hows 1/2-2/3 throttle feel? Good response and no stumble if you are holding it there and then whip it open full?

  • dldavis_66

Posted February 20, 2008 - 05:47 PM

#19

WORD hows 1/2-2/3 throttle feel? Good response and no stumble if you are holding it there and then whip it open full?



WORD???

Throttle feels excellent throughout the entire powerband. No stumble at all when I whip it open anywhere in the throttle. When I kick it...whammo....outta the hole in a flash man.
I am totally pleased with everything I have done to my bike so far, other than that bit where I reamed out my pilot:naughty: :applause: :cry:

FYI I haven't actually finished with my header making. As happy as I am with the headers that I have, there is much room for improvement. More specifically getting the header weight down by using 20g Stainless(which incendently would increase the ID of the head pipes quite a bit compared to using 16g). I wanted to use all 20g from the get go. But the bender I have at work isn't cut out for that light of gauge material without some help. Through my discoveries I have found a solution to the rippling problem. Low Melting Point Alloys. Simply melt it (some alloys as low as 117 degress F), pour it in the tube, let it cool, bend it, heat it up to liquify the alloy so it will pour back out of the tube and wha la.

But that will come later. Right now I am concentrating on getting all my new top end parts and getting the old bike up and running again. Of course with all the mods I have done with the new bike. After that bike is done, I'll do the same top end work to the new one. Gonna have 2 kick ass, bad ass motor scooters!!!
:)

  • Denn10

Posted February 20, 2008 - 06:47 PM

#20

"WORD!!!" means something like "HELL YEAH " RIGHT ON" SWEET" LOL





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