Suspension help


37 replies to this topic
  • zimak

Posted February 12, 2008 - 05:37 PM

#21

No it was a package deal from a local shop.
$392 for:
upgrade fork springs (noleen)
upgrade shock spring
fresh nitrogen
fresh fluids
fresh fork seals

  • BWB63

Posted February 12, 2008 - 05:57 PM

#22

That is an awesome, very good, wounderful price, if you get the fork valves ported, they use 2.5~3wt fluid, the right springs and valve setups that will work with the springs and your weight for the riding you do. I now always put in a new bladder for the shock. Even if they don't change the shim stack but, port the fork valves and go with 5wt fluid you will be much happier then stock.

This is the deal with the fork valves. Honda wanted to make the XR650R forks handle a wider range of weight (for the bigger guys that buy the bike here) without changing to much in the forks. They left the same shim stack for all years but, they use a whale snot fluid with some kind of stringy whale fat snot in it. It tends to rust the rebound rod very badly very quickly. Then they (Honda) made the ports much smaller to slow down the fork rate for heavier guys. This make the harsh ride everone is trying to get fixed. In 2005 the port holes got much smaller but, they left everything else the same, making the forks even harsher but, stopped bottoming much better. The fork were designed to use very light fluid, larger port holes and was made to be use by a 160 pound rider who ate rice. Larger springs will need more rebound control. This a fact that is over looked by a lot of shops looking to make a quick buck. They don't want to do all shim stacks for both valves in each fork. (You do NOT port the rebound valve!) It takes me ten~fifteen minutes to port both fork compression valves using the drill press, wearing leather gloves (sometimes not). Sometimes knowing what every system does and how they all work together makes for wanting the job done right. If you would like to know more about how some of the guy's that race/ride with the setup's off the www.borynack.com/XR650R site ask about it on the http://autos.groups....m/group/XR650R/ site or the http://autos.groups..../group/pigfest/ site.

  • Denn10

Posted February 12, 2008 - 06:03 PM

#23

Vegas.
I know I need to just pony up and make the tools for the forks, I just want to make damn sure they are done right with the seals and fluids and all that and its something I've never had a hand in.

Going in blind from what I've read it seems easy to make a small mistake with a high penalty.


i thought the exact same as your saying UNTIL i did mine on my YZ 250 and when i was done i was like WT F that was easy!! I know its hard when you havent done it but there are people on here that will definitely help you out if you choose to do them yourself.

Ill be in Vegas in week and a half, im only about 2 and a bit hours from you in CA off 15. Big archery shoot the 22-24 so im going.

  • Denn10

Posted February 12, 2008 - 06:06 PM

#24

No it was a package deal from a local shop.
$392 for:
upgrade fork springs (noleen)
upgrade shock spring
fresh nitrogen
fresh fluids
fresh fork seals


BWB i dont think this is revalving, only springs and normal servicing! Which $400 if its those 5 things you said above is normal price, HIGH in my book but thats how people make money.

  • BWB63

Posted February 12, 2008 - 06:58 PM

#25

I agree with you on that. I have a habbit of being a little sarcastic and I was thinking of making a point of showing what was missing for a complete job. I reread my post and it was pretty flat on that point. $210 for the springs, $15 for Nitrogen, $40 for seals, $45 for top fluid if you buy it. If you make the fork tool you are about at the same price. If you get real spring (and not stockers cut and spaced) at the right spring rate this is still not a bad price but, you didn't get it valved for the new springs. If your bike is not leaking and you are not bottoming your suspension you have not gained much.


Something to think about:
If you are not clicking your suspension (light bottoming) on the big hits you are running the compression to stiff. If you are bouncing when you land you are not running enough rebound. There is a silly thought of wanting to only use the upper stroke of you suspension travel and never bottom. This is not what the suspension is made to do. You need to be using most of the suspension travel on most of the hits. The rate of the hit or how big should be regulated by the different systems an compansate for the hit.

I won't cover it all but, your adjusters are really valve bypasses and will only flow at a certain rate, then the shims start to bend as the fluid passes through the ports of the valve. The shims bend at different rates according to the pressure of the fluid (the speed and rate of compression or rebound). This is all works with the fluid Viscosity. There is eddies as fluids flow through ports and all kinds of other things like hydrolicing to deal with but, in the end you can have both a plush ride on the small chatter (Ruts, Roots, Rocks) and stop bottoming going off drop off's and big whoops. It does get tricky when you have both "G" outs and hits (Ruts, Roots, Rocks) at the same time. There are to many trying to do everything without adjusting anything. If you go bigger springs and do not slow down rebound you will have a pogo stick.

  • Denn10

Posted February 12, 2008 - 09:14 PM

#26

Good Info Bwb

  • XR680RR

Posted February 13, 2008 - 07:01 AM

#27

I have the Desert Race setup and it is bitchen. It takes a little time to get over that you can't feal the ground. The forks are busier then stock on the small stuff almost floating. I have .45kg Eibach's and the forks do feel softer then stock. I bottom out about the same on the real big hits I think I have come to push my limits way up and now I am just jumping bigger jumps. So, I think it bottoms the same. The shock has never bottomed to the point I can feel it.

  • zimak

Posted February 13, 2008 - 08:30 AM

#28

Did you revalve as well or just respring?

  • bigtooth

Posted February 13, 2008 - 08:49 AM

#29

By the desert race setup, i'm pretty sure he's referring to the shim setup listed in the word document. There are 3 setups, I have setup my bike with the stiffest one labeled Baja Racing, however,
I have yet to try it out due to the 8ft of snow we have here! Once you have the forks all apart its not bad to re-shim.

I bought a used pair of forks off ebay so I have another setup to play with.

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  • XR4DEZ

Posted February 13, 2008 - 10:01 AM

#30

No it was a package deal from a local shop.
$392 for:
upgrade fork springs (noleen)
upgrade shock spring
fresh nitrogen
fresh fluids
fresh fork seals


This includes their labor too, right. Granted doing it yourself is cheaper especially if you consider your labor worth nothing but this is not an overcharge. Like everyone says though you should revalve and be done with it.

  • zimak

Posted February 13, 2008 - 10:22 AM

#31

Yeah I'm sold on that part but reading borynack's sites just a bit intimidated mainly when it comes to the rear shock.
Drilling (dont have a drill press) and the very low room for error worries me since I've never done it before.

How many of you guys did your own respring/revalving front and rear?

  • scalejockey

Posted February 13, 2008 - 01:42 PM

#32

Iv'e revalved my front twice and the rear three times before it was stiff enough,along with stiffer springs. It handles so much better in the sand and floats over the big bumps.

  • XR680RR

Posted February 13, 2008 - 02:34 PM

#33

I had the complete Desert Race setup done. Shims, valves porting and all. Had the ports drilled at Bruce's place. He was packaging a valve setup for someone else that broke their valve tring to drill it out. He holds the valve in his hand and pushes the valve onto the spinning drill bit in the drill press. He does the same thing drilling the air blead hole in the seal head for the shock. This one is at a sharp angle.

  • zimak

Posted February 13, 2008 - 02:42 PM

#34

IHe was packaging a valve setup for someone else that broke their valve tring to drill it out. He holds the valve in his hand and pushes the valve onto the spinning drill bit in the drill press.


Exactly where my reservations come from doing it myself.
I dont have extra parts laying around....

  • XR680RR

Posted February 13, 2008 - 03:21 PM

#35

He made it look so easy my third grader could have done it. The trick is you can't put the valve in a vise but, he held it by hand and drilling straight letting the existing hole guide the drill bit. He said, to use a new sharp bit and all is well. Everything looked easy except when he removed the crimp that holds the shock shaft nut on. That took sometime. He sawed it sideways and then used a table belt sander, then worked the nut up and then belt sander, then after the nut was off he used a cone grinder on the drill press and in the end it had a perfect bevel on the end of the shaft. The stock nut was still good and all the shaft hight was still there. The hole for the return fluid was still the stock size. He showed me a shaft from another shop that was just ground off at the nut. The hole was bigger and the needle seat that is down the shaft didn't have the metal to hold it in like it should. The other shaft looked like my third grader did it. He is a little bit of a perfectionist and takes his time like he is biulding a moddle plane. His shop is very small, just big enough for one bike. It was behind his garage.

  • BWB63

Posted February 13, 2008 - 07:35 PM

#36

With your new springs. They should be at 505mm long +/-2mm Pre-load till you get there and then If you want more pre-load then shim 3mm~5mm more for the fork springs; this helps let the front end ride a little higher through the whoops. 5mm is a little stiff but, most Baja Racers run that. I can't handle that much and run 3mm most of the time. I think I have 5mm now. I know I don't make any sense:excuseme: It kinda like the wrist says 3mm but, the mind says 5mm when you are in forth in the whoops. It does not help stop bottoming. Pre-load only helps in the first inch of travel so, the first inch is very stiff and makes the ruts not as fun on the wrists. It is way better to run no pre-load shims but, they are a little like a crutch on a long ride through lots of whoops. You should have the top of the forks sticking out above the top triple clamp 5mm to the bottom of the fork cap. This will let you carve through the turns better without to much tank slap at high speeds. 4" shock race sag, to 3.75" if you ride real agressive.

  • XR680RR

Posted February 14, 2008 - 03:19 PM

#37

It is weird to talk about someone and then they post like they are listening right behind you.
Bruce can you post some pictures of how you remove the shock valve nut?

  • XR680RR

Posted March 03, 2008 - 10:02 PM

#38

Well, what did you deside? How did it work out?





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