Dust still getting past the filter.


19 replies to this topic
  • mvryder

Posted January 27, 2008 - 11:08 AM

#1

Hey guys. I am riding an 07 and here are some pictures of my air box and filter after a 60 mile dusty ride. I have already ground down the cage post to allow the filter cage to seat tighter. Here is ther thread on that throry http://www.thumperta...light=dust carb
I am using a Twin air filter with generous amounts of oil. Do you guys think there is a leak in the air box around the boot? Where is the dist coming in? Another picture shows this fine dust on the inside of the AIS hose elbow. Could there be a bad seal here, where the elbow meets the boot?

Also a thought is the dust seemed to really be concentrating on a small spot on the filter, enough to cover the lettering completely. maybe it just got over powered and seeped though the filter a bit? Let me know what you think.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

  • dirtysouth

Posted January 27, 2008 - 11:17 AM

#2

Should be fine as long as you keep it in check. Try some silicon gel of some type where it may be sneaking through. I usually just spray the fool out of mine after cleaning and go a little heavy on the areas that touch the form. A couple of other things that you could try if it is really on your nerves..
1) tape the cracks where your box cover goes before you ride
2) pull your seat and make a primary filter to fit over the uptake of your box out of an old filter from anything. Just be careful not to get carried away and make it too restrictive.

  • bobc1

Posted January 27, 2008 - 11:37 AM

#3

My son and I purchased new 2007 WR450's in May of 2007. We have ridden them approximately 2,800 miles each, mostly in So Cal desert areas.

I was amazed to see the exact same fine dust on the inside of both filters after a day of riding in dusty summer desert conditions.

I went through seven different combinations of filter elements and filter oils attempting to stop the fine dust from coming through. I also disassembled and sealed the rubber airbox boot and grease sealed the filters. The dust is definitely going through the filter element.

Same result with all filter/oils, although the best combo were the No Toil Extreme filters with Belray or Maxima FFT oil. Even these allowed the very fine powder through the filters.

I am still amazed at this fact.

After the first rain in the desert, I have not seen any dust inside the filters. We are not racing, though, and usually don't intentionally ride in another rider's dust. Obviously, since a few rains, the filters stay much cleaner longer.

I was changing engine oil and filters during the summer after each weekend of about 100 mile rides due to the dust. Since the rains, I usually go two weekends between oil changes.

BTW, none of the various filter/oil combo's had any effect on top speed (right around 80mph) on either bike. Same with subjective observations regarding jetting.

The dirt stuck to the one spot on your filter seems odd although it is probably caused by uneven oiling of the element. The Belray and Maxima oils do stay put, even after sitting for weeks.

Just my $.02.

Bob

  • phm14

Posted January 27, 2008 - 11:47 AM

#4

Maybe its just me, but that filter looks a little dry. I like the blue Belray oil. Saturate the filter until the color is pretty uniform, and put a thin film of grease around the sealing surface where the filter meets the airbox. Letting the oiled filter sit overnight on some newspaper will help insure you don't overdo it on the oil.

  • mvryder

Posted January 27, 2008 - 12:45 PM

#5

Thanks for the info BOBC1. I noticed the same thing you did. In the wet weather all is well. Once the dust kicks up, things seem to get in everywhere. I will try to oil the filter more than I am and let it sit overnight.

I really thought I had the problem licked when I noticed that the filter cage didn't seat all the way.

I am thinking that the concentrated dust spot is because it is right in line with the air box holes. It does seem to favor that one side thought. I do try to oil the filter evenly, I spray a lot on and work it in with my hands for a few minutes to try to get and even looking coat.

BOBC1, do you have your AIS removed. I have mine still attached (GYTR kit installed but just left on the AIS for informed rangers) I am worried that the hose might be flexing the elbow / air boot connection and letting in dust. This on might be a stretch?

Also just a thought, the filter holder spring assembly might have something to do with it. When it is attached it lifts up on the edge of the air box / filter seating ring area. Might this be flexing open the boot / box interface. The reason I ask is I haven heard of this problem on the YZ, and I am pretty sure the yz has a central screw to attach the air filter and wouldn't flex up the corner like on the WR. Thoughts?

  • dirtysouth

Posted January 27, 2008 - 01:01 PM

#6

Thanks for the info BOBC1. I noticed the same thing you did. In the wet weather all is well. Once the dust kicks up, things seem to get in everywhere. I will try to oil the filter more than I am and let it sit overnight.

I really thought I had the problem licked when I noticed that the filter cage didn't seat all the way.

I am thinking that the concentrated dust spot is because it is right in line with the air box holes. It does seem to favor that one side thought. I do try to oil the filter evenly, I spray a lot on and work it in with my hands for a few minutes to try to get and even looking coat.

BOBC1, do you have your AIS removed. I have mine still attached (GYTR kit installed but just left on the AIS for informed rangers) I am worried that the hose might be flexing the elbow / air boot connection and letting in dust. This on might be a stretch?

Also just a thought, the filter holder spring assembly might have something to do with it. When it is attached it lifts up on the edge of the air box / filter seating ring area. Might this be flexing open the boot / box interface. The reason I ask is I haven heard of this problem on the YZ, and I am pretty sure the yz has a central screw to attach the air filter and wouldn't flex up the corner like on the WR. Thoughts?


DUCT TAPE:cheers:

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted January 27, 2008 - 01:04 PM

#7

if you ask me that air box looks fine...and the air filter is dirty but to be honest it looks like its doing its job. for me...i do tons of baja and so cal desert and i run the stock filter and a uni filter both with uni filter oil and they always come out dirty but never anything getting past. :cool:

  • SXP

Posted January 27, 2008 - 01:09 PM

#8

The reason I ask is I haven heard of this problem on the YZ, and I am pretty sure the yz has a central screw to attach the air filter and wouldn't flex up the corner like on the WR. Thoughts?


I don't know....my 99 WR400 ALWAYS has a fine layer of dust inside (just as my 07 WR does) and it is the same kind of setup as the YZ, i.e., a bolt with a spring and flat washer going through the center of the filter to secure it :cool:

I've tried every filter/oil combo known to man and the fine layer of dust is always there.

  • dirtysouth

Posted January 27, 2008 - 01:16 PM

#9

I don't know....my 99 WR400 ALWAYS has a fine layer of dust inside (just as my 07 WR does) and it is the same kind of setup as the YZ, i.e., a bolt with a spring and flat washer going through the center of the filter to secure it :cool:

I've tried every filter/oil combo known to man and the fine layer of dust is always there.


Tape the cracks and make a filter for that intake hole...MXers use the tape in wet conditions on bikes that need it...an extra homemade primary filter could only help..good luck

  • SXP

Posted January 27, 2008 - 01:18 PM

#10

make a filter for that intake hole


Do you mean over the "mouth" of the air box?

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • dirtrider115

Posted January 27, 2008 - 01:26 PM

#11

make sure you put plenty of grease on the flat sealing lip and a dab on the hole area where the mount goes through also really take your time installing it back in the air box and reach your hand around the back side to make sure its sealed

  • creeky

Posted January 27, 2008 - 02:50 PM

#12

make sure you put plenty of grease on the flat sealing lip and a dab on the hole area where the mount goes through also really take your time installing it back in the air box and reach your hand around the back side to make sure its sealed


Excellent advice.

  • mvryder

Posted January 28, 2008 - 11:12 AM

#13

Has anyone had this problem, changed something (sealed something, or change air filter type, oil, or procedure), and gotten the problem to go away???

  • JSanfilippo

Posted January 28, 2008 - 01:15 PM

#14

Has anyone had this problem, changed something (sealed something, or change air filter type, oil, or procedure), and gotten the problem to go away???


Had the problem once when I used no-toil with the stock filter (started a thread kinda like this one)

Went to a twin air filter and Maxima FFT oil...which I'm pretty sure is what your're running.However, I have not had any problems with it since then.

There is alot of dust in the AIS nipple on the air box. Are you still running the AIS or do you have it capped off?

  • MXRDriver

Posted January 28, 2008 - 01:26 PM

#15

After cleaning and oiling your filter, apply GENEROUS amounts of wheel bearing grease to the mating surfaces of your filter. The grease will seal all the cracks and allow air to pass only through the filter. Even apply grease between the thumb screw washer and the filter... messy to clean up, but no more leaks.

  • mvryder

Posted January 28, 2008 - 01:45 PM

#16

I am still running the ais. it is not blocked off.

I am running a twin air and maxima oil, I run grease, I have the proper cage (no hole), I ground down the alignment post so the cage sits all the way down. I was going to tear the air box down seal it up with silicone, but it sounds like from bobc1 that it doesn't make any difference.

I am seriously starting to get disappointed with this bike. Should have stuck with my XR. I have to tear the thing down again to get the carb out and get all that crappin dust out of the slide chamber. It is the second freakin time I have had to do it. Every thing is so GD burried in the bike it is a freakin nightmare! Getting the valve cover off is like a rubix cube. 560 miles on a brand new bike and it is nothin but a pain in my A$$. This bike is causing me more stress than fun.

Sorry but I am just really frustrated.

  • mvryder

Posted January 28, 2008 - 08:40 PM

#17

Hey guys. Ok, I know this looks weird but ere is what I did. I took apart the air box and reassembled it with just the band clamp, the boot, and the filter contact ring. I sealed off the carb end and the filter end. Then I dunked the whole thing in water and blew on the end of the AIS hose and watched where the bubbles came out. I wasn’t blowing that hard at all, less than if I was blowing up a balloon.
The interface between the filter ring and the boot leaked air! Furthermore, the interface between the AIS elbow and the boot leaked air when lightly flexed! I only mention the latter part because I am pretty sure the hose lightly flexes the elbow when the whole thing is attached. This applies to us CA guys in fear of the informed ranger. So that’s what I got. I think the air boot assembly is leaking. I am going to silicone the crap out of the whole thing.
Posted Image

  • dirtysouth

Posted January 29, 2008 - 03:39 AM

#18

....at all, less than if I was blowing up a balloon.
The interface between the filter ring and the boot leaked air!
Posted Image


Not sure which end you are referring to but I am very interested in this lil expeiment. Could you draw an arrow to the "interface" on this image that you refer to and repost?

  • phm14

Posted January 29, 2008 - 08:37 AM

#19

:busted: mmmm, veeeeery interesting. May have to take another look inside my box, just to be sure. I don't really care for that AIS elbow connection anyway and may silicon that just for good measure. Way to troubleshoot:thumbsup:

  • mvryder

Posted January 29, 2008 - 08:58 AM

#20

Also for what its worth, the flange on the filter ring has some pretty harsh parting lines from the molding process. These could cause some leakage on the boot to ring interface because they make a pretty un-smooth mating surface. Also, just a thought, the band clamp has a hard tightening spacer to as to no allow over tightening of the band clamp. Maybe a solution could be cut this down a bit so the band clamp can be tightened more.




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.