Supermoto fast cornering techniques


45 replies to this topic
  • Blackie1980

Posted January 19, 2008 - 09:08 AM

#1

Anyone got any tips? Is it better to lean it like a sports bike or sit up on it like the motocross riders do? Dont mention backing it in as i have no hope :cool: cheers all

  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 09:15 AM

#2

Depends on the corner.

4th gear an above corners, its quicker to lean it in, like a sports bike.

Tight twisties, i find foot out and lean away from the bike to be quicker and more comfortable! :cool:

  • Blackie1980

Posted January 19, 2008 - 09:17 AM

#3

Depends on the corner.

4th gear an above corners, its quicker to lean it in, like a sports bike.

Tight twisties, i find foot out and lean away from the bike to be quicker and more comfortable! :cool:


Nice one mate.

  • evilwade

Posted January 19, 2008 - 09:37 AM

#4

Anyone got any tips? Is it better to lean it like a sports bike or sit up on it like the motocross riders do? Dont mention backing it in as i have no hope :cool: cheers all


:applause: Get yourself off to Supermoto school and learn from the pro's.

  • MrsSlicer

Posted January 19, 2008 - 09:57 AM

#5

+1 to both. I would love to go to a Supermoto school.

For me personally I prefer to get off the seat like a sport bike. It's comfortable for me. But it usually ends up depending completely on road conditions. If it's cold and your tires aren't sticking well, I find it best to stick the foot out. Gives that extra control when you have no grip. Hot summer days, I more often then not come off the seat.

  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:02 AM

#6

Backing it in is pretty hard to do.

I'm in the process of learning at the moment, there is alot of theory behind it, and it only works in certain corners :cool:

  • nadrojp

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:09 AM

#7

balls out into the corner in 4th gear...I like to run from the outside right toward the apex, drop two gears about 20 feet from the entrance give the back brack a little push as i feather the clutch whil pressing the inside peg, shift body till you feel the back break loose to the right a tad, un weight inside peg, foot out and forward till i hit said apex full throttle out of the corner, foot back on peg down the straight and repeat on next corner... oh wait you said no backing it in... in that case, do a track day and find out which way suits you better, so you dont figure it out by hitting a guard rail! good luck!

( this would be for a left hander)

  • evilwade

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:13 AM

#8

Found this site
http://www.ccmowners...m#Backing it In

  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:17 AM

#9

I've covered the top of backing in on many different forums and i've always used this to explain the technque best...

Shamelessly stoled from the Husaberg site written by Simon Supermoto instructor best write up I have seen


I've been an instructor for the Supermoto School here in the UK and this is how we teach it based upon how the top European SM riders - those who really know how to do it!

First, lets tackle backing it in, then we'll look at drifting....

1. bike setup - just keep it the same as normal and what you're used to - changing settings will make the bike feel different and therefore how will you know how it feels to start sliding? Making changes adds to the confusion and as with engine development - do one thing at a time!

2. Understand the process first and what we're trying to achieve:

a) It's not just to look good - it's about getting the bike into a better position to get the rider through and out of the corner as fast as possible.

Backing it in is therefore about getting the bike pointing further in the direction you want the bike to go so that you're then able to get on the throttle harder and earlier, and spending less time leaning too far over to get on the throttle properly - if you know what I mean.

This should also answer the question as to when to back it in - only when it's the best thing to do - in other corners, knee down superbike style may be the best and fastest way round - use your judgment - it depends on the corner.

:cool: It's about preparing for getting out of the corner fastest therefore it is about being set up for getting straight on the gas when you hit the apex or point at which you want to fire out of the corner (whichever is most appropriate).

This should answer your question about what and how many gears you need to knock it down as you back it in - if it is a first gear corner, you knock the gearbox down to first, if it is second, you knock it down to second. And that means even if you're in sixth gear and you approach the corner. It is not as scary as it sounds and we'll build up to that....

c) You never lock the rear wheel - but you do break traction (obviously).

To do this with good control and stability you will use a mixture of the gearbox, clutch and rear brake. Notice that I don't mention the front - that is because as per normal you'll most probably be braking as hard as you can with the front brake - so nothing has changed there then

3. Breaking the traction - which is what we need to do first. This is done with the gearbox - dropping down the required number of gears and the literally dumping the clutch - after you have started leaning the bike over. As the traction breaks, the rear wheel will slight out sideways.

The best way to practice this is in a car park or somewhere similar where you can simply go straight back and forwards, making sharp turns at each end round a cone or something. For the purpose of practice select the place to do it so that you can get up to third gear, going down to first. As you ride towards your corner, make sure you're sat well forwards on your seat and if possible your body position should at the very least be held completely in line with the bike as you leaning but ideally should always be leaning slightly further to the inside even with your inside bum cheek slightly off the seat - do not whatever you do try ti sit on the bike like they do in MX (you'll find out why later). The following steps happen in rather quick succession:

1. You start breaking for the corner with your front brake to transfer weight to the front (that's also one of the reasons you need to sit forwards on the bike).
2. As you begin to brake you will obviously pull in the clutch and now drop down two gears.
2. Begin leaning yourself and bike into the corner - just do this gradually for now
3. Dump the clutch - just let it out suddenly.

You will find out if you have the right amount of lean angle into the corner when the rear begins to break away sideways. To begin with an inch feels like a mile, that is why you gradually increase lean angle. When you get used to it you'll happily do it whatever lean angle you're at.

What you will find when practicing this is that the rear will slide out and very quickly come back into line before the apex - we resolve this with the rear brake.Get used to this breaking away feeling first using only the gearbox and clutch.

The reason the rear brake is used is to maintain a constant but slow rotation of the rear wheel. What you'll have noticed is that if you just use your clutch, the engine revs quickly increase as friction between tyre and tarmac pull the wheel round quicker - that is why you experience the rear coming into line quite quickly. The rear brake is used to add more friction so that engine revs don't rise and the rear wheel maintains its slower rotation. That is all the rear brake is used for! So it is done gently!

So lets add this to the above process:

1. Set yourself up on bike, begin breaking with the front and add a little rear brake
2. Drop down through the gears
3. Lean in
4. Dump clutch

You will notice whether you're getting the rear brake pressure right by how well the bike maintains its slide to the apex. When you practice this you will also know why we only add the rear brake after you've learnt how to initiate the slide.

What you may also notice when doing these exercises is that the rear wheel may begin hop - this is rectified by using the clutch and just pulling it in very slightly.

As you practice the above you will also notice that the degree to which you're sliding varies and that you can vary it yourself, depending on the corner - this is done using the clutch and very slight adjustments on the clutch lever as your backing it in to the corner - this bit is the bit that really requires the practice and skill and marks the difference between those who can slide and those who can sliiiiiiide.!

You may notice that none of this means you have to be absolutely on it or riding aggressively to slide - it's actually a very gentle technique when you get to know it.

That should be enough to get you started........

As for the drifting bit, I think the first thing you need to do is get used to doing it on your sm bike with slicks on loose gravel or something similar and as above doing this between a couple of cones so that you're going round a couple of really tight turns getting on the power so that the bike spins round the corner, if necessary with your inside foot on the ground to give support. The really important thing to remember is that as the bike begins to slide you lean your body to the inside of the bike and also ever so slightly bringing the bike more upright (look at dirttrackers). Once you've got comfortable with this on the loose stuff, then get onto tarmac and begin with learning how to do donuts, first with the bike really leaning over stood still and with one leg on the ground. Then get used to breaking traction and pivoting yourself on you leg round in circles as the rear burns away (it is also quite good to start this on loose stuff to get used to the feel).

One point about drifting and that is really difficult for some riders to get their heads around is that you do not, whatever you do, chop the throttle! If a drift starts going too far you regulate it by holding the throttle and/or by pushing the bike more upright.

As an interesting point Valentino Rossi practices his drifting in a quarry with a bike with an MX front tyre and road rear tyre!

This should also be enough to get you started.



  • Blackie1980

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:20 AM

#10

balls out into the corner in 4th gear...I like to run from the outside right toward the apex, drop two gears about 20 feet from the entrance give the back brack a little push as i feather the clutch whil pressing the inside peg, shift body till you feel the back break loose to the right a tad, un weight inside peg, foot out and forward till i hit said apex full throttle out of the corner, foot back on peg down the straight and repeat on next corner... oh wait you said no backing it in... in that case, do a track day and find out which way suits you better, so you dont figure it out by hitting a guard rail! good luck!

( this would be for a left hander)


I can knee down very easily on my zx6 (when i had it) but dont feel as safe on my sm cornering as it feels really light on the back end. anyone got any pics of themselfs leaning an sm to its maximum?

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  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:31 AM

#11

This was taken at Brands Hatch on the final corner.

I was leant over as far as i felt comfortable with, and was no where near peg down!

The bike will go well past pegs down and still stay up, its all in your head tho. Trust me i know!

Posted Image

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  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 10:32 AM

#12

oh and heres the wear on the rear tire, no where near the edges!!

Posted Image

  • Blackie1980

Posted January 19, 2008 - 11:24 AM

#13

What tyres are they and do you use them on the road? Problem is i watched some numpty trying to knee down on a round about on a youtube vid and he came right off and now thats in my head, could of been cold tyres. So you can deffinatly 100% get your peg on the floor with out any issuse? (sp)

  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 11:36 AM

#14

tyres are Maxxis Street Sports, and are perfect!

Run them on the road for 3 months now, and love them to bits!

Reg down is very doable on any supermoto, the DRZ is no different!!

there used to be a wicked vid o youtube of a peg down from the peg view, cant find it now.

here's me doing a roundabout, almost getting my knee and my pegs down!

  • Blackie1980

Posted January 19, 2008 - 11:39 AM

#15

tyres are Maxxis Street Sports, and are perfect!

Run them on the road for 3 months now, and love them to bits!

Reg down is very doable on any supermoto, the DRZ is no different!!

there used to be a wicked vid o youtube of a peg down from the peg view, cant find it now.

here's me doing a roundabout, almost getting my knee and my pegs down!


How fast were you doing there fella? 40 ish? i think most of my problem with conering is i havent ridden it loads as i got it just after the summer and put spuddies right on it, its back to sm now and looking good

  • nadrojp

Posted January 19, 2008 - 11:41 AM

#16

personally... iv e tried knee down at the track, almost highsided... now I ride it like its a dirtbike w/ smaller wheels... its geometry is set up like a dirt bike... some people make it work with the sportbike style, but ill save that for the sportbikes. ( its actually easier to get a knee down for me on the sm than my old cbr... just doesnt feel right to me)ill see if i can find a pic of my first trackday for lean angle..

  • nadrojp

Posted January 19, 2008 - 11:50 AM

#17

heres an old pic of my first trackday out... w/ my foot kind of in like a dirt tracker. I ride much better now, but you get the picture as far as a decent lean(peg barely touching)
Posted Image
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  • Blackie1980

Posted January 19, 2008 - 11:52 AM

#18

heres an old pic of my first trackday out... w/ my foot kind of in like a dirt tracker. I ride much better now, but you get the picture as far as a decent lean(peg barely touching)
Posted Image
Posted Image


looking good and it looks like a confident way of doing it, but as headster says it maybe better leaning like a sports bike round fast corners

  • headster

Posted January 19, 2008 - 12:13 PM

#19

about 25 - 30mph, not really that fast at all!

I do think leaning around the faster corners is better, keeps your head down and keeps the speed up.

nadrojp, thats an amazing lean for a first trackday!

I'm going to a kart track in May for a KTM forum trackday, hope to be able to slide and peg down whilst there! :cool:

  • 421Slicer

Posted January 19, 2008 - 06:49 PM

#20

I can knee down very easily on my zx6 (when i had it) but dont feel as safe on my sm cornering as it feels really light on the back end. anyone got any pics of themselfs leaning an sm to its maximum?


Not It's Maximum... That's be dragging pegs (yeah I've done it!)
Posted Image
Posted Image


...even with a rain tire! I had to hang off more though!
Posted Image

Note that hanging off will reduce the lean angle of the bike, while increasing corner ability! These pics, I was going between 45 and 50 mph. In the sub 30 turns, I tend to stick a foot out, and slam the pegs down... If it walks, my boot's ready!





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