XR650L Fuel injection might be possible, and easy...


64 replies to this topic
  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 09:54 AM

#1

Guys, I was reading this thread:

http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=592619

And a guy in there "Captain Midnight", chimed in and said he easily put fuel injection in his 650L. I'm really interested in this now, as I originally wanted a new Husky for the fuel injection, but didn't want to wait. Anyway, anyone else know more about this. The companies that make the products are called Megasquirt and Microsquirt, with Microsquirt being the most recent version I think. Link:
http://www.microsquirt.info/

Anyone know more about this? Done it, willing to do it, or absolutely won't do it and why?

  • Rockjockey

Posted January 15, 2008 - 10:11 AM

#2

I've heard they experience fuel starvation when jumping and on rough terrain unless the fuel tank is continually topped off.

  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 10:15 AM

#3

Really? Wonder why? Doesn't seem logical, as I would think the fuel feed can't change too much. Again, I don't know jack about EFI, and not a whole lot about carburetors.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 15, 2008 - 10:36 AM

#4

I've heard they experience fuel starvation when jumping and on rough terrain unless the fuel tank is continually topped off.


I wonder if some type of "accumulator" would help this issue?

Like a pressurized container to keep a constant fuel PSI during these times.

  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 10:52 AM

#5

I still don't get why the fuel feed changes? I read somewhere from a guy who mentioned that EFI eliminates petcocks, but why, and how exactly does it change it so much to produce this kind of problem?

  • Kyron

Posted January 15, 2008 - 10:53 AM

#6

Again, I don't know jack about EFI, and not a whole lot about carburetors.



The more I know about carburetors, the more I dislike EFI for dirtbikes.

Why have more things that can go wrong?


Now that I think about it ........ propane would be real cool on a dirt bike!! , 'cept for running out :banghead:

* I have a toyota rockcrawler that I'm converting to propane instead of EFI

  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 11:05 AM

#7

The more I know about carburetors, the more I dislike EFI for dirtbikes.

Why have more things that can go wrong?


Now that I think about it ........ propane would be real cool on a dirt bike!! , 'cept for running out :banghead:

* I have a toyota rockcrawler that I'm converting to propane instead of EFI


Granted, carburetors seem to be a more mechanically simple part, but I don't know why EFI would produce more problems than a carburetor. Do they still use jets, etc.? I know people have been concerned about the fact that if your battery dies, you're screwed. On an L, in the sand, if your battery dies, you're screwed anyway. I'm pretty sure they make roll-up solar chargers these days anyway, don't they?

  • Paul Barnard

Posted January 15, 2008 - 11:25 AM

#8

I've heard they experience fuel starvation [COLOR="Lime"]when jumping [/COLOR]and on rough terrain unless the fuel tank is continually topped off.


I knew it, pigs can fly.:banghead:

  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 11:41 AM

#9

I knew it, pigs can fly.:busted:


Oh, they will, I got high enough the other day to max out the forks. Guess I need to tighten those up, or put some CRF forks on! Back on topic, please! :banghead:

  • Rockjockey

Posted January 15, 2008 - 12:27 PM

#10

Suzuki is working on EFI for their bikes and as I understand it you need a in tank fuel pump, injector(s),a fuel return line, mass air meter, and an O2 sensor. When low on fuel and turning sharply or landing from a jump the pump is positioned out of the gasoling temporarily. Maybe a tank bladder could solve this issue as no air would be in the bladder with the gas, it would shrink up as gas is used. They dont have it quite worked out yet. They have it pretty well ironed out on the quad but you dont lean the quad while gassing it through rough terrain like a dirt bike, or jump and pancake. Imagine diagnosing problems with these extra items added to your bike. You would need OBD.

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  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 12:44 PM

#11

Suzuki is working on EFI for their bikes and as I understand it you need a in tank fuel pump, injector(s),a fuel return line, mass air meter, and an O2 sensor. When low on fuel and turning sharply or landing from a jump the pump is positioned out of the gasoling temporarily. Maybe a tank bladder could solve this issue as no air would be in the bladder with the gas, it would shrink up as gas is used. They dont have it quite worked out yet. They have it pretty well ironed out on the quad but you dont lean the quad while gassing it through rough terrain like a dirt bike, or jump and pancake. Imagine diagnosing problems with these extra items added to your bike. You would need OBD.


I didn't realize there needed to be a pump. But, if that is the case, how did Husky figure it out for the TE line? Those are very offroad capable bikes, and I haven't read anything bad about the FI from anyone on those. I know they're just coming out in the US, but have been using FI in Europe for at least a year or more, no? Also, I thought the Suzuki RMs came with FI last year? For that matter, the new Yamaha WR250 dual sports are FI, and my buddy said he saw a video of a guy hucking one through a motocross track like it was a YZ.

  • zrxer

Posted January 15, 2008 - 12:50 PM

#12

I wonder if some type of "accumulator" would help this issue?

Like a pressurized container to keep a constant fuel PSI during these times.


Rich, a lot of EFI outboard motors have a system similar to what you just described. They have one pump from the fuel tank to a "float chamber" and then a high pressure one from the chamber to the injecters. Bruce

  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 12:52 PM

#13

Ooh, it is looking like there's a lot more to this than a carburetor...

Still curious as to how companies like Husky were able to overcome these obstacles.

  • cj7dakota

Posted January 15, 2008 - 01:02 PM

#14

hey guys. i have an 07 crf250 and an ltr450. i have learned ALOT about efi with the quad. there is a few ways of doing the efi set up. with a battery or without. with a battery is much more simple, the battery is used to prime the fuel pump exactly how your car works. without the battery it uses a magneto(i think thats what its called) and a capacitor(just like with car stereos). what happens is when you kick the bike a few times it primes the fuel pump and then once it is primed it will fire. it uses no jets, just an O2 sensor. there are 2 types of FI open loop or closed loop. these are open loop i believe. what the O2 sensor does is measures how much air the bike is sucking in but it does not adjust for that. a closed loop measures how much air is coming in and adjusts your air fuel ratio accordingly. dont get me wrong there is a whole slew of new parts needed for this to work though. this all sounds complicated an expensive but its not. i have one bike with EFI and one bike without. i NEVER want to deal with another carburator again. another GREAT thing about efi is how many times have you experienced bog due to landing hard or coming out of a corner hard? thats because the g's you put on your carb are greater than the vaccum in your carb. efi never has to deal with that because of the fuel pump. so unless you are out of gas the amount of fuel will not matter in the gas tank no matter how much it sloshes around because it gets stored in the pump. so no matter hard you try the bike will never bog if your in the right gear of course.....hope this helps

  • Rockjockey

Posted January 15, 2008 - 01:08 PM

#15

http://www.thumperta...system problems

  • martinfan30

Posted January 15, 2008 - 01:18 PM

#16

You are partially right. An O2 sensor determines oxygen in the exhaust gas. Not whats coming into the engine. Thats what the MAF sensor does. OL EFI does ignore the O2 sensor. CL EFI uses the O2 sensor to determine the need for change(amount of change) to Air/Fuel ratio... Or injector duration.

I would say its very possible to do to any bike as a "universal" kit. Needing the pieces RJ has noted. I would also say my idea to avoid the "slosh" in rough conditions would be to encase the pump in a cannister that has holes drilled in the bottom. This would keep enough fuel in the cannister for the pump to supply the injectors during rough conditions.

Just a thought...

  • XR650L_Dave

Posted January 15, 2008 - 02:21 PM

#17

I wonder if some type of "accumulator" would help this issue?

Like a pressurized container to keep a constant fuel PSI during these times.


Hot-rodders call this a surge tank- it doesn't need to be pressurized, really, but that might actually be the easiest way to do it.

Dave

  • BeeDub

Posted January 15, 2008 - 02:34 PM

#18

Okay, so here's what I want. Kubiak, MartinFan, and XR650L_Dave, come up with the design specs and do some trial runs for us. Once it's perfected, I'll throw one on, deal? haha

  • martinfan30

Posted January 16, 2008 - 07:40 AM

#19

Okay, so here's what I want. Kubiak, MartinFan, and XR650L_Dave, come up with the design specs and do some trial runs for us. Once it's perfected, I'll throw one on, deal? haha


OK, as soon as i get that blank check!LOL!:banghead:

  • BeeDub

Posted January 16, 2008 - 09:40 AM

#20

OK, as soon as i get that blank check!LOL!:busted:


Yeah, I'll get right on that! :banghead:





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