Check out these pictures? Advice XL600R Cylinder Head Removed? Rust or something?


30 replies to this topic
  • superior

Posted January 09, 2008 - 06:28 PM

#1

I wanted to start a new thread so all of you could see the details of the pictures on my 1983 XL650R. I had a cylinder head cover gasket leaking and i realized that one of the bolts was stripped (I can fix that) but now when I removed the cylinder head cover it appears to be some time of rust or something?

1) what is the rust color (did somebody in the past use some time of gasket sealer or is this rust?) is this normal?

2) Can you see if anything looks like it needs to be replaced? The bike has 17,000 miles on it

3) the Timing Chain looks good (I kicked over the engine and it's straight with no kinks or warping)



Thanks for any feedback or recommendations:

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  • zrxer

Posted January 09, 2008 - 06:45 PM

#2

Your cam is junk. It looks like probably all the rockers (the ones that ride on the cam) are also. You need to pull this engine all the way down. Bruce

  • superior

Posted January 09, 2008 - 06:48 PM

#3

Your cam is junk. It looks like probably all the rockers (the ones that ride on the cam) are also. You need to pull this engine all the way down. Bruce


Thanks Bruce - by the way what is that rust colored stuff? is that normal? do I just clean it off or what?

  • zrxer

Posted January 09, 2008 - 06:54 PM

#4

I really don't know what that brownish stuff is, I've never encountered that in a bike engine before. Maybe someone else will chime in that has. Bruce

  • zrxer

Posted January 09, 2008 - 06:58 PM

#5

Also when you pull the head, get the combustion chamber glass beaded and inspect it for cracks. These things are notorious for cracking between the exhaust valves and spark plug hole.:banghead: Bruce

  • cleonard

Posted January 09, 2008 - 07:06 PM

#6

+1 on the cam and rockers being toast.

Since you have to pull the head, it's time to look at everything. Check the piston and bore sizes. Check the ring end gap. With the jug off look into the crankcases and look at the trans gears.

Cam damage like that can be from oil starvation. This can be as simple as a clogged frame strainer or kinked oil lines.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 09, 2008 - 07:11 PM

#7

Well thats an aluminum head, so rust is out of the question. It looks like that material is pretty much around the entire sealing surface of the valve cover on the exterior. I would say that is remnants of a poorly chosen gasket sealer.

Also looks like time for new cam/rockers as Bruce said.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 09, 2008 - 07:14 PM

#8

Definately replace the oil pump. Clean out the oil line from the case to the cyl. head too. I wonder if a oil pipe from a newer XRL has a larger passgeway for oil? That may be considered also. Both the screens may be plugged with that "sealer", so check/clean them too.

  • brantc

Posted January 09, 2008 - 09:27 PM

#9

The brown stuff is Permatex gasket sealer.

Clean it all off!! Make sure you get it all.
Check your oil passages for blockage.
You dont want any pieces blocking any oil passages.......
Could explain the burnt cams....

Use a regular gasket...:banghead:

  • xr650l bum

Posted January 09, 2008 - 10:30 PM

#10

Is this an 83 or 93? How bad is this wear on the parts for an 83?

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  • Denn10

Posted January 09, 2008 - 11:42 PM

#11

when checking your cam feel on the lobes with your fingers for any imperfections. They do look kinda scarred from the pics. Wire brush will clean that stuff off well.

  • superior

Posted January 09, 2008 - 11:48 PM

#12

The brown stuff is Permatex gasket sealer.

Clean it all off!! Make sure you get it all.
Check your oil passages for blockage.
You dont want any pieces blocking any oil passages.......
Could explain the burnt cams....

Use a regular gasket...:banghead:


Thanks for clearing up the question of the rust color being Permatex. [COLOR="Red"]I cleaned off all the permatex real well (and I have gotten a new metal gasket OEM Honda). The service manual does not specify if I need a gasket sealer or not? Do you know the answer to this?[/COLOR] I just got this bike and I didnt think it would have as much work needed on it. I knew the cylinder head gasket was leaking, but I figured that would be a minor fix. Maybe I'm better off locating a used or rebuilt engine. I'm not a great mechanic when it comes to engines. I'm only used to maintaince items (or replacing basic parts). Any ideas on where I could find a rebuilt/used good engine from?

THanks

  • superior

Posted January 09, 2008 - 11:50 PM

#13

when checking your cam feel on the lobes with your fingers for any imperfections. They do look kinda scarred from the pics. Wire brush will clean that stuff off well.


I looked at the pictures again, and then I looked at the actual cams they do not seem as bad as the pictures show. I think there was some oil still on them and the reflection from flash enhanced any blemishes on them. There is some minor imperfections I can feel with my hands, but I dont want to spend that much $ reparing this bike. Between Rockers and Cams and who knows what else???? i'm not sure if i'm better off finding a used/rebuilt enging somewhere?

  • Nailpounder

Posted January 10, 2008 - 03:20 AM

#14

The problem is that the oil feed pipe is to small an not enought oil is getting to the head. I would bet the cam an rockers have been changed before due to the oil problem. They look to good to have that many miles on them.
The sealer is a sign that the rocker box has been off before to change out the cam an rockers.
Even hard weld rockers/ cam will not make up for no oil.
You can run a 5/30 oil that will help in the winter an a 5/50 for the summer months. You also should kick your bike over several times to get oil to the head before start up. But the bottom line is a bigger oil feed pipe.

  • Nailpounder

Posted January 10, 2008 - 04:29 AM

#15

Here's another small thing that will make a big difference with top end oiling on the 600 motors, take the banjo bolts out, you will see that the one on the case has a larger hole in it.
Drill the center an the side port(jet) out to 1/8 in. Do the same to the one on the cylinder head as well. Also index the side port(jet) with a washer if necessary so the port lines up with the oil feed line hole.
This will help get oil to the head faster, it's not the cure all but I have had good results with just this mod an a lighter first number oil.

  • suharianu

Posted January 10, 2008 - 08:50 AM

#16

Make sure that bearing near cam sprocket is a sealed bearing, because the oil needs to go thru the cam to oil the lobes and rockers.
if the head cover gasket surface are smooth and clean you dont need to
add silicone.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 10, 2008 - 09:18 AM

#17

Here's another small thing that will make a big difference with top end oiling on the 600 motors, take the banjo bolts out, you will see that the one on the case has a larger hole in it.
Drill the center an the side port(jet) out to 1/8 in. Do the same to the one on the cylinder head as well. Also index the side port(jet) with a washer if necessary so the port lines up with the oil feed line hole.
This will help get oil to the head faster, it's not the cure all but I have had good results with just this mod an a lighter first number oil.


Good idea on indexing the holes..

  • martinfan30

Posted January 10, 2008 - 09:21 AM

#18

Thanks for clearing up the question of the rust color being Permatex. [COLOR="Red"]I cleaned off all the permatex real well (and I have gotten a new metal gasket OEM Honda). The service manual does not specify if I need a gasket sealer or not? Do you know the answer to this?[/COLOR] I just got this bike and I didnt think it would have as much work needed on it. I knew the cylinder head gasket was leaking, but I figured that would be a minor fix. Maybe I'm better off locating a used or rebuilt engine. I'm not a great mechanic when it comes to engines. I'm only used to maintaince items (or replacing basic parts). Any ideas on where I could find a rebuilt/used good engine from?

THanks


No sealer with a new gasket. This is why torque is so important. I have reused the metal gasket before and used an extremely thin layer of Toyota's FIPG. I wouldnt use Permatex.

  • Motosprtman

Posted January 10, 2008 - 09:30 AM

#19

yup remnants of permatex cooper gasket sealer, it's okay to use on a base gasket - that is with a base gasket to hold the gasket in place, but on a cam cover I use yamabond.
E-bay it for a new cam and rockers - lotsa parts on there right now someone just parted one out!

  • cleonard

Posted January 10, 2008 - 09:47 AM

#20

Be really careful if you use any type of sealer. New Honda gaskets are coated with a plastic that functions like a sealer. If you use too much some can break off inside the engine and cause the sort of problems that you are seeing now.

If you do use something, be sure that it can take the heat. I would not use anything that is not good to at least 500F. The head temp can get over 400. That limits you to more specialized products. I have used the red hi temp silicone RTV that is good to 600F.

Take a real good look at the cam cover matings surfaces. Look for damage. Even tiny imperfections can cause leaks. There have been posts here about lightly sanding or lapping the mating surfaces to stop a leak. My cam cover is leaking badly even though I did the sealer thing last time. I'm going to do the lapping thing and use a new gasket soon. It takes a large known flat surface. Glue down some really fine sandpaper (1000 grit?) and run both the cover and the head over it. That should help the gasket seal.





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